High School Playoffs

Many matches tonight will determine the final placements for the playoffs. As of now, it looks like quite a few great first round match ups. These are the ones I want to see:

Plano V Denton Guyer
Coppell V Allen
Carroll V Marcus
Keller V Hebron

McKinney Boyd District 10-5A champions!

As I was driving by the stadium tonight I saw Marcus was ahead of Hebron 3-0 with about 30 minutes left. I guess Coach Gall lit a fire under the troops tonight.

I was at the game. The talk in the stands was Hebron rested a lot of their starters. The results of last nights game had not impact on playoff position. Have no idea of that is true or not. I dont have a dog in this fight. Just took my kids to watch a soccer game.

Seinfeld4 wrote:I was at the game. The talk in the stands was Hebron rested a lot of their starters. The results of last nights game had not impact on playoff position. Have no idea of that is true or not. I dont have a dog in this fight. Just took my kids to watch a soccer game.

That's probably not the best way to build momentum for the playoffs. Besides, Hebron doesn't play again for a week - why rest your players??? High schools coaches have some strange strategies at times.

onetenguy wrote:

Seinfeld4 wrote:I was at the game. The talk in the stands was Hebron rested a lot of their starters. The results of last nights game had not impact on playoff position. Have no idea of that is true or not. I dont have a dog in this fight. Just took my kids to watch a soccer game.

That's probably not the best way to build momentum for the playoffs. Besides, Hebron doesn't play again for a week - why rest your players??? High schools coaches have some strange strategies at times.

From looking at Hebrons success doens't seem like they need much momentum. They already have it. With many kids playing club ball seems like a prudent thing to do is give them some rest before trying to make a deep run. They are not the only team giving their players a rest if they can. When I saw the score that was the first thing that came to mind was he was resting players since the game had no bearing.

Given the physical style many referees allow in HS soccer I think it is more about not getting key players hurt in a meaningless game than resting them.

The Coach may have been resting players, but Hebron's loss and Allen's win dropped Hebron from 2nd in district to 3rd. They went from a first playoff game against Keller to a game with Coppell because of the loss. Pick your poisen as both teams are extremely tough.

lowandhard wrote:The Coach may have been resting players, but Hebron's loss and Allen's win dropped Hebron from 2nd in district to 3rd. They went from a first playoff game against Keller to a game with Coppell because of the loss. Pick your poisen as both teams are extremely tough.

I would much rather play Keller than Coppell. Coach Byb is extremely experienced and will have his Coppell team well prepared. Don't get me wrong, both teams are tough but give me Keller before Coppell.

my2cents wrote:Given the physical style many referees allow in HS soccer I think it is more about not getting key players hurt in a meaningless game than resting them.

Looks like it wasn't meaningless. Hebron chances of going out in the first round just increased - you can argue by how much. I think it doesn't matter anyway, as Plano Senior High probably makes the regional semis from that side of the bracket.

So they have already announced the matchups, times and locations? Anyone have a link? Or maybe I should stop being lazy and find it myself!

Its all about matchups. Hebron had to think their road through Coppell/Colleyville/Plano was more adventurous then Keller/Legacy/Southlake. Marcus must be crying to have been paired with the Dragons. Should be lots of fun on Monday/Tuesday

Don't get too excited about the link below. I believe last year this wasn't completed until the regional quarterfinals were completed.
http://www2.uil.utexas.edu/brackets/soccer/soccer-boys-5a.pdf

my2cents wrote:Given the physical style many referees allow in HS soccer I think it is more about not getting key players hurt in a meaningless game than resting them.

Many referees allow physical style regardless of the level being played; plus "physical style" is also a very subjective term. UIL, TASO officers do not explicitly request referees to permit such style. From rec to MLS, there are referees who let the game flow and others who love total control of the game.

In any case, HS coaches are free to make special requests (especially for play-off games) if they are concerned about the opposing team. Of course, that's all subject to referee availability. One point to note though is that at the end of the season some patterns are evident in terms of teams' conduct. For example, one of the teams listed above is one of the most penalized teams in regards to yellow cards this season.

another reason Hebron could've rested players is because of the yellow card/caution points. you dont want ta player thats in danger of missing the next game to get that caution in a meaningless game when you're already qualified for playoffs. injury is worse, but having a player sit out while healthy sucks rhinoceros balls.

Prosper almost had a big upset last night vs. Wakeland. Prosper went up 2-0 in the first half and held tough until Wakeland finally finished the come back with 4 minutes left in the 2nd half. This was Prosper's first time in the playoffs and playing up in 4A. Better Wake Up Wakeland

[quote="Majortom"]

my2cents wrote:Given the physical style many referees allow in HS soccer I think it is more about not getting key players hurt in a meaningless game than resting them.

Many referees allow physical style regardless of the level being played; plus "physical style" is also a very subjective term. UIL, TASO officers do not explicitly request referees to permit such style. From rec to MLS, there are referees who let the game flow and others who love total control of the game.

In any case, HS coaches are free to make special requests (especially for play-off games) if they are concerned about the opposing team. Of course, that's all subject to referee availability. One point to note though is that at the end of the season some patterns are evident in terms of teams' conduct. For example, one of the teams listed above is one of the most penalized teams in regards to yellow cards this season.[/quote


I was trying to be charitable. From rec to MLS HS ball in 4A is the worst referying I have seen. This season alone I saw many deliberate leg sweeps no where near the ball, some resulting in injuries, deliberate trips, cursing, arguing, keepers punching attackers in the face getting no ball. Almost never were any cards given. How about duals run entirely from the defensive back lines and never coming off the sideline ? Basically two ARS with out a center. Saw a couple of those too. There are some good and very good refs out there without a doubt, but overall the quality is dangerously poor.

[quote="my2cents"]

Majortom wrote:

my2cents wrote:Given the physical style many referees allow in HS soccer I think it is more about not getting key players hurt in a meaningless game than resting them.

Many referees allow physical style regardless of the level being played; plus "physical style" is also a very subjective term. UIL, TASO officers do not explicitly request referees to permit such style. From rec to MLS, there are referees who let the game flow and others who love total control of the game.

In any case, HS coaches are free to make special requests (especially for play-off games) if they are concerned about the opposing team. Of course, that's all subject to referee availability. One point to note though is that at the end of the season some patterns are evident in terms of teams' conduct. For example, one of the teams listed above is one of the most penalized teams in regards to yellow cards this season.[/quote


I was trying to be charitable. From rec to MLS HS ball in 4A is the worst referying I have seen. This season alone I saw many deliberate leg sweeps no where near the ball, some resulting in injuries, deliberate trips, cursing, arguing, keepers punching attackers in the face getting no ball. Almost never were any cards given. How about duals run entirely from the defensive back lines and never coming off the sideline ? Basically two ARS with out a center. Saw a couple of those too. There are some good and very good refs out there without a doubt, but overall the quality is dangerously poor.

I disagree; refereeing at ALL levels here in the US is mediocre and way behind other parts of the world. For example, do you know how many US refs. participated in say the last 3 world cups?

Specifically, HS soccer is also challenging to ref; the assigning, the winter weather, the rules, the ref. training and definitely the audience are all deterrents. The pay (mileage included) is usually the initial incentive for referees to start HS games; however, after a couple of seasons, many referees quit.

In terms of the bad calls, HS coaches can request to include/exclude referees for a particular game; however, due to the limited number of referees, those requests may not be honored all the time. Also, because of the referee shortage, you do see a lot of duals...especially in JV and below games. But, to reiterate my initial point, the reason you have bad calls is not because of their (HS refs) willingness to let physical play; the reason is simple: we're expecting TWO individuals to do a job that in most days 3 (or 4) refs can't perform. Come on.

Hey, but instead of complaining, we can be part of the solution here. Why don't we become HS referees? Cheers.

Enjoy the playoffs!

Gasp!!!! no need to kill the buzz everyone gets from bitching and complaining about referees, majorTom. stop immediately with the suggestions of some anonymous figure on a message board that knows every rule and its application backwards and forwards but no desire to actually pick up a whistle and actually call a foul or two. we dont wanna break a sweat, run a couple of laps to keep up with the boys. we might break a nail....

twotone wrote:Gasp!!!! no need to kill the buzz everyone gets from bitching and complaining about referees, majorTom. stop immediately with the suggestions of some anonymous figure on a message board that knows every rule and its application backwards and forwards but no desire to actually pick up a whistle and actually call a foul or two. we dont wanna break a sweat, run a couple of laps to keep up with the boys. we might break a nail....

Ok I'll update you TT. I have 3 refs in my house ages 13, 15 and 21. I have sat thru all three classes and certified once. I have a few good friends who have reffed for many years and know many others well enough to discuss call as freinds and educate myself as to why they did or did not make certain calls. I have also done the HS test numerous occassions helping someone with a reading disability. I have no ACL or Medial cartledge in one knee and the other has been operated on and thus can not referee. I have done the wee ones though upon occasion. The The calls I complain loudly about involve safety. When it comes to the score I really don't care about a call that may or may not effect it; that is part of the game. I have been a rec administrator for 10 years and for 6 of those involved in looking after and helping out young refs. So yes I have a decent knowledge of the rules and I do know an intentional dirty take down versus good physical play and what may be acceptable in rec vs CL vs HS. I know there is a shortage but to have 6 of our 10 4A varsity district games duals while 5A girls are fully manned is a valid complaint

twotone wrote:another reason Hebron could've rested players is because of the yellow card/caution points. you dont want ta player thats in danger of missing the next game to get that caution in a meaningless game when you're already qualified for playoffs. injury is worse, but having a player sit out while healthy sucks rhinoceros balls.

I think it it hard to believe that Hebron was resting players. The original scenario was for Coppell to play Hebron @ Marcus stadium on Tuesday. Hebron did not want to play at a stadium where they had just lost 3-1 so Hebron and Coppell flipped for home field. Coppell won the flip. Hebron will be playing Coppell @ Buddy Echols field in Coppell Tuesday @ 8:00 o'clock. If he was resting players that didn't work out to well did it as well with the stadium situation. I wonder if Hebron wants to re-think their strategy?

quickfoot wrote:

twotone wrote:another reason Hebron could've rested players is because of the yellow card/caution points. you dont want ta player thats in danger of missing the next game to get that caution in a meaningless game when you're already qualified for playoffs. injury is worse, but having a player sit out while healthy sucks rhinoceros balls.

I think it it hard to believe that Hebron was resting players. The original scenario was for Coppell to play Hebron @ Marcus stadium on Tuesday. Hebron did not want to play at a stadium where they had just lost 3-1 so Hebron and Coppell flipped for home field. Coppell won the flip. Hebron will be playing Coppell @ Buddy Echols field in Coppell Tuesday @ 8:00 o'clock. If he was resting players that didn't work out to well did it as well with the stadium situation. I wonder if Hebron wants to re-think their strategy?

prob. not

Home field advantage is derived mainly from the greater number of fans the hometeam turns out. In this case, I think the same parents will show up as always. The heckling Coppell student hooligans appear to have metriculated and should not be a distraction this year.

my2cents wrote:

twotone wrote:Gasp!!!! no need to kill the buzz everyone gets from bitching and complaining about referees, majorTom. stop immediately with the suggestions of some anonymous figure on a message board that knows every rule and its application backwards and forwards but no desire to actually pick up a whistle and actually call a foul or two. we dont wanna break a sweat, run a couple of laps to keep up with the boys. we might break a nail....

Ok I'll update you TT. I have 3 refs in my house ages 13, 15 and 21. I have sat thru all three classes and certified once. I have a few good friends who have reffed for many years and know many others well enough to discuss call as freinds and educate myself as to why they did or did not make certain calls. I have also done the HS test numerous occassions helping someone with a reading disability. I have no ACL or Medial cartledge in one knee and the other has been operated on and thus can not referee. I have done the wee ones though upon occasion. The The calls I complain loudly about involve safety. When it comes to the score I really don't care about a call that may or may not effect it; that is part of the game. I have been a rec administrator for 10 years and for 6 of those involved in looking after and helping out young refs. So yes I have a decent knowledge of the rules and I do know an intentional dirty take down versus good physical play and what may be acceptable in rec vs CL vs HS. I know there is a shortage but to have 6 of our 10 4A varsity district games duals while 5A girls are fully manned is a valid complaint

if you've done all this, then perhaps you would have the knowledge to complain to people that can make a difference rather than on a measly message board. you might also choose not to join the sheep and yell at the refs on your kids games just cuz you paid your $5 at the gate. IMO, it makes it even worse that you're just like the rest if you've been an taken the classes, refereed games, and been an admin and are growing the next crop of potential HS refs. can't wait for you to be the guy that gets mad cuz some other idiot parent is yelling at your son/daughter as they ref a game and dont "call it both ways, ref".....

twotone wrote:

my2cents wrote:

twotone wrote:Gasp!!!! no need to kill the buzz everyone gets from bitching and complaining about referees, majorTom. stop immediately with the suggestions of some anonymous figure on a message board that knows every rule and its application backwards and forwards but no desire to actually pick up a whistle and actually call a foul or two. we dont wanna break a sweat, run a couple of laps to keep up with the boys. we might break a nail....

Ok I'll update you TT. I have 3 refs in my house ages 13, 15 and 21. I have sat thru all three classes and certified once. I have a few good friends who have reffed for many years and know many others well enough to discuss call as freinds and educate myself as to why they did or did not make certain calls. I have also done the HS test numerous occassions helping someone with a reading disability. I have no ACL or Medial cartledge in one knee and the other has been operated on and thus can not referee. I have done the wee ones though upon occasion. The The calls I complain loudly about involve safety. When it comes to the score I really don't care about a call that may or may not effect it; that is part of the game. I have been a rec administrator for 10 years and for 6 of those involved in looking after and helping out young refs. So yes I have a decent knowledge of the rules and I do know an intentional dirty take down versus good physical play and what may be acceptable in rec vs CL vs HS. I know there is a shortage but to have 6 of our 10 4A varsity district games duals while 5A girls are fully manned is a valid complaint

if you've done all this, then perhaps you would have the knowledge to complain to people that can make a difference rather than on a measly message board. you might also choose not to join the sheep and yell at the refs on your kids games just cuz you paid your $5 at the gate. IMO, it makes it even worse that you're just like the rest if you've been an taken the classes, refereed games, and been an admin and are growing the next crop of potential HS refs. can't wait for you to be the guy that gets mad cuz some other idiot parent is yelling at your son/daughter as they ref a game and dont "call it both ways, ref".....

You make all these asumptions about me from what? Because I, like many knowledgeble people, think many times HS refereeing is poor quality . Because I wince and cringe when I see young athletes injured in games that have spiraled out of control? Because I will implore refs to gain control even asking for calls against my team? Your a moron . Im out on this one.

my2cents wrote:

twotone wrote:

my2cents wrote:

twotone wrote:Gasp!!!! no need to kill the buzz everyone gets from bitching and complaining about referees, majorTom. stop immediately with the suggestions of some anonymous figure on a message board that knows every rule and its application backwards and forwards but no desire to actually pick up a whistle and actually call a foul or two. we dont wanna break a sweat, run a couple of laps to keep up with the boys. we might break a nail....

Ok I'll update you TT. I have 3 refs in my house ages 13, 15 and 21. I have sat thru all three classes and certified once. I have a few good friends who have reffed for many years and know many others well enough to discuss call as freinds and educate myself as to why they did or did not make certain calls. I have also done the HS test numerous occassions helping someone with a reading disability. I have no ACL or Medial cartledge in one knee and the other has been operated on and thus can not referee. I have done the wee ones though upon occasion. The The calls I complain loudly about involve safety. When it comes to the score I really don't care about a call that may or may not effect it; that is part of the game. I have been a rec administrator for 10 years and for 6 of those involved in looking after and helping out young refs. So yes I have a decent knowledge of the rules and I do know an intentional dirty take down versus good physical play and what may be acceptable in rec vs CL vs HS. I know there is a shortage but to have 6 of our 10 4A varsity district games duals while 5A girls are fully manned is a valid complaint

if you've done all this, then perhaps you would have the knowledge to complain to people that can make a difference rather than on a measly message board. you might also choose not to join the sheep and yell at the refs on your kids games just cuz you paid your $5 at the gate. IMO, it makes it even worse that you're just like the rest if you've been an taken the classes, refereed games, and been an admin and are growing the next crop of potential HS refs. can't wait for you to be the guy that gets mad cuz some other idiot parent is yelling at your son/daughter as they ref a game and dont "call it both ways, ref".....

You make all these asumptions about me from what? Because I, like many knowledgeble people, think many times HS refereeing is poor quality . Because I wince and cringe when I see young athletes injured in games that have spiraled out of control? Because I will implore refs to gain control even asking for calls against my team? Your a moron . Im out on this one.

I made no assumptions. You said:
-you are growing the next crop of referees "3 refs in my house ages 13, 15, and 21"
-you have taken the certification "i have sat through all three classes and certified once"
=you have done the HS test "i have also done the HS test numerous occasions helping someone with a reading disability"
-you have officiated games "i have done the wee ones though upon occasion"
-you have yelled at other referees "the calls i complain loudly about involved safety"
-you have been a Admin "i have been a rec administrator for 10 years"

the only thing i assumed was that you would have the wherewithall to know the proper channels to communicate your frustrations thru since you have all the experience that you've noted in your posts. my bad for assuming that since its more fun to come on a message board and complain OR its more fun to yell out at the refs at your HS soccer match than it is to contact someone and address your concerns.