State of N Texas soccer

by go99 11/13/2009, 3:41 pm

Can only speak from the perspective of a 99 parent. I don't get it. I hear how great the soccer is in N Texas with all the great clubs etc, but I look at the national youth squads and top international players and where is N Texas? 95 age group has 0 from N texas while VA has 8 and CA 7. 96 N Texas manages to put up 2 with CA at 12 and MI at 14. U14 natinal team N Texas pulls a whopping 3 with CA dropping 10. Not to mention that there are no US players in the top 100 players. What's going on, whose fault is it, and how do we fix it? We put top money into a system that seems to provide little to no result. Instead of getting the advantadge that we should, our kids or bested by kids who grow up playing for free and mostly uncoached. I have spoken with a few coaches about soccer here and watched the clubs. There are a few bright spots among the coaches, but is this the best the clubs can do? Can Texans, Solar, FCD, etc. do no better than to fail to rise to the level of common street soccer?

by CLUB31 11/13/2009, 4:40 pm

Enjoy your U 11 kid and quit complaining

by happyfeet 11/13/2009, 5:00 pm

CLUB31 wrote:Enjoy your U 11 kid and quit complaining

You didn't know? His kid is the next superstar. NCAA D1 coaches are already lined up to offer him scholarships. State of N Texas soccer Drunken_smilie

by mrclean 11/13/2009, 5:53 pm

For what is worth here is my take on this and my 1 cent (I wouldn't call it 2).
What makes a player great?
1. Time with the ball.
2. God
I feel that technical skill is not coached. It is mastered. It comes from the interaction between the ball, foot, muscles, and nervous system. All those hours that a kid spends in the backyard or park messing with a ball adds up.
The second part is probably the most frustrating to accept and that is that some kids are blessed with a level of speed, strength, coordination, muscle fiber, etc. that puts them into the exceptional category. Unfortunately, "Select Soccer" has created a system where the individual talents and abilities are usually what is noticed when scouting. Attitude, effort, tactical understanding, team chemistry, etc. is sometimes overlooked.
As a tired, worned down Dad who doesn't have kids in the top tier, I see soccer as a game that my boys play because it's fun. It's given them a winning mentality. Both my boys are fighters and they take what they do seriously. If they don't play college soccer, I will be dissapointed, but I also think that they will channel their drive into something else and be better off for it.

by socmom3 11/13/2009, 6:26 pm

mrclean wrote:For what is worth here is my take on this and my 1 cent (I wouldn't call it 2).
What makes a player great?
1. Time with the ball.
2. God
I feel that technical skill is not coached. It is mastered. It comes from the interaction between the ball, foot, muscles, and nervous system. All those hours that a kid spends in the backyard or park messing with a ball adds up.
The second part is probably the most frustrating to accept and that is that some kids are blessed with a level of speed, strength, coordination, muscle fiber, etc. that puts them into the exceptional category. Unfortunately, "Select Soccer" has created a system where the individual talents and abilities are usually what is noticed when scouting. Attitude, effort, tactical understanding, team chemistry, etc. is sometimes overlooked.
As a tired, worned down Dad who doesn't have kids in the top tier, I see soccer as a game that my boys play because it's fun. It's given them a winning mentality. Both my boys are fighters and they take what they do seriously. If they don't play college soccer, I will be dissapointed, but I also think that they will channel their drive into something else and be better off for it.

From a tired worn down soccer mom, who's bbs play for the love of the game, camaradarie, and sportsmanship, too...Well said mrclean State of N Texas soccer Icon_smile

by plantit 11/13/2009, 8:01 pm

happyfeet wrote:
CLUB31 wrote:Enjoy your U 11 kid and quit complaining
You didn't know? His kid is the next superstar. NCAA D1 coaches are already lined up to offer him scholarships.

He states the facts nothing more .
We have become a society of " instant " gratification. NTX soccer is a microcosume of this. Look at the city itself . Cowboys win , Mavericks win , We are all on a high. the water cooler is active . They lose and it's " give me a gun ". We rate progress and developement with winning . That is the only gauge we use. Blue tooth, texting, mobil phones,intenet, ????? We all as parents got to where we are today without any of these. Conversation is a forgotten art. Sometimes the little important details are lost in the quest for gratification. And the details is what makes a complete soccer player. Love for the game .???? Who has time to love . we have to conquer

by Hail Celtic! 11/13/2009, 8:46 pm

I am tempted to play the "our best athletes play football" card, but after watching the Academy teams train with the National team coaches a few Fridays ago I am not so sure.

Fact;
We lose some kids to football around 8th grade and football is king in Texas.
N.TX is well represented in the national championships

There are only 32 spots to be had and the next U15 National team training camp the week of DEC 12

Ireland better beat France tomorrow

What were we talking about...

by Ibystander 11/13/2009, 9:07 pm

Hail Celtic! wrote:I am tempted to play the "our best athletes play football" card, but after watching the Academy teams train with the National team coaches a few Fridays ago I am not so sure.

Fact;
We lose some kids to football around 8th grade and football is king in Texas.
N.TX is well represented in the national championships

There are only 32 spots to be had and the next U15 National team training camp the week of DEC 12

Ireland better beat France tomorrow

What were we talking about...

Nothing ticks me off more than hearing people say that the best athletes play football. BIG kids do well at football. Give them a little speed and they'll do better. TALL kids would probably do best at basketball. yeah, you might have a few 5'9" guys raking in the dough, but I can't even count them on my fingers. Look at the pros. Argue all you want. I'd like to see Shaq on the soccer field. I'd like to see Maradona on the basketball court. And Mike Tyson play golf.

by afrankw 11/13/2009, 9:37 pm

Ibystander wrote:
Hail Celtic! wrote:I am tempted to play the "our best athletes play football" card, but after watching the Academy teams train with the National team coaches a few Fridays ago I am not so sure.

Fact;
We lose some kids to football around 8th grade and football is king in Texas.
N.TX is well represented in the national championships

There are only 32 spots to be had and the next U15 National team training camp the week of DEC 12

Ireland better beat France tomorrow

What were we talking about...
Nothing ticks me off more than hearing people say that the best athletes play football. BIG kids do well at football. Give them a little speed and they'll do better. TALL kids would probably do best at basketball. yeah, you might have a few 5'9" guys raking in the dough, but I can't even count them on my fingers. Look at the pros. Argue all you want. I'd like to see Shaq on the soccer field. I'd like to see Maradona on the basketball court. And Mike Tyson play golf.

I agree with Ibystander, Football is king in CA and they seem to do well with Soccer. I think alot has to do with the distribution of talent and the cost. In many of the states the home associations has traveling teams and the players must play in the area, which they live, not with the best club. At an older age, the can begin to move to clubs. The cost here is amazing, in New Jersey to play Travel Soccer, which is select for us it cost $150 plus the uniforms for u-11 - U-14. The coaches work for the association and all players within the association can try out each year for the team. The cost gives everyone a chance to play. The bottom line is some of the best talent in this area does not play select because they do not have the $1,500 - $3,000 most clubs charge. I know that there are scholarship, but how many of the clubs, other than the larger ones can afford them. If you have a chance the first weekend in December there is a Tournament of Champion, which the the winner of all the Rec leagues around the area. Go watch the games and see what talent isn't playing select. The fact that NTX does not have more kids on the national teams, does not bother me, nor do I think we should try to change, my kids love playing here and I love watching and that is what it is all about. Time for me to step down from my soapbox.

by go99 11/13/2009, 9:38 pm

Well said. Look at many of the top Soccer players and they are athletes built for soccer. Also we are represented well at nationals, but winning at nationals and learning the game are 2 different things. Actually enjoy my bb every day but for people who don't want me to talk about him, you sure bring him up alot. So FYI he is not trying to get himself a D1 scholorship, he has bigger dreams than that. So club, If your brain isn't big enough to form an intelligent thought then pass the post bye or you stop complaining and get in the game. Happyfeet keep dancing cause I didn't bring up the bb you did. There are no 10 yr old superstars but since you mentioned it, I'd be willing to step out and say he's a bigger one than yours.

by plantit 11/13/2009, 10:25 pm

Ibystander wrote:
Hail Celtic! wrote:I am tempted to play the "our best athletes play football" card, but after watching the Academy teams train with the National team coaches a few Fridays ago I am not so sure.

Fact;
We lose some kids to football around 8th grade and football is king in Texas.
N.TX is well represented in the national championships

There are only 32 spots to be had and the next U15 National team training camp the week of DEC 12

Ireland better beat France tomorrow

What were we talking about...
Nothing ticks me off more than hearing people say that the best athletes play football. BIG kids do well at football. Give them a little speed and they'll do better. TALL kids would probably do best at basketball. yeah, you might have a few 5'9" guys raking in the dough, but I can't even count them on my fingers. Look at the pros. Argue all you want. I'd like to see Shaq on the soccer field. I'd like to see Maradona on the basketball court. And Mike Tyson play golf.

If ( Iron mike ) misses a putt he may bite his caddies ear off.

Now,, i'm into watching golf !!!

by forbin 11/13/2009, 11:11 pm

Ibystander wrote:
Hail Celtic! wrote:I am tempted to play the "our best athletes play football" card, but after watching the Academy teams train with the National team coaches a few Fridays ago I am not so sure.

Fact;
We lose some kids to football around 8th grade and football is king in Texas.
N.TX is well represented in the national championships

There are only 32 spots to be had and the next U15 National team training camp the week of DEC 12

Ireland better beat France tomorrow

What were we talking about...
Nothing ticks me off more than hearing people say that the best athletes play football. BIG kids do well at football. Give them a little speed and they'll do better. TALL kids would probably do best at basketball. yeah, you might have a few 5'9" guys raking in the dough, but I can't even count them on my fingers. Look at the pros. Argue all you want. I'd like to see Shaq on the soccer field. I'd like to see Maradona on the basketball court. And Mike Tyson play golf.

by Freeatlast 11/14/2009, 10:28 am

In many of the states the home associations has traveling teams and the players must play in the area, which they live, not with the best club. At an older age, the can begin to move to clubs. The cost here is amazing, in New Jersey to play Travel Soccer, which is select for us it cost $150 plus the uniforms for u-11 - U-14. The coaches work for the association and all players within the association can try out each year for the team. The cost gives everyone a chance to play. The bottom line is some of the best talent in this area does not play select because they do not have the $1,500 - $3,000 most clubs charge.[/quote]

Sounds like what you describe is what was intended when the youth (U10 and below) academy was started here. But NT Soccer let the academy program get hijacked by the clubs. For example, the Texans had a large pool of academy kids, but rather than working with all of them to develop the group, they immediately let a selected coach (e.g. Craft) pick out some of them and treated them like a select team, he only worked with those 14 and never spent a minute with the others. That, in effect, simply let the club start select soccer a few years earlier, even though it wasn't called that. The associations couldn't field teams to compete with the academy/select teams the clubs put out, so their academies generally folded up (with a couple of rare exceptions like Hurst United). So now we basically have club select that starts at age 9 or below.

by clueless 11/14/2009, 10:50 am

It's been that way for a while. It starts closer to U5-6, IMO. The importance of winning league games is paramount for clubs and club coaches here - so, it will never change. In other states, it's all about State Cup - the league games are basically practices and for kids to try new things. The fact that the national teams don't have a large NTX presence speaks volumes, so does national championships. Sure, we have national championship teams, and that should be commended, but there is so much luck involved once they get to regionals (or even to get to regionals) - that it's hard to judge a league/region by national championships, IMO. On the flipside, it's just as hard to judge national team makeup given the politics involved and those that go professional might opt out of national teams.
I've stated before, the only way I can foresee a truly developmental environment would be to have every Tues/Thur skills 'stations' run by the various clubs. Each week, kids would rotate (prevents one kid working with one coach/club). On Saturday, there would be games (not of consistent teams, but of similar abilities - almost pick-up games/scrimmages). This would NEVER fly, as parents want to win, parents want to be a part of something (not NTSAA, but specific clubs/teams). But, if you can possibly take the score out of the picture, you can possibly work on developmental focus - hard, not impossible. With the machine that is NTSSA in place now, it would be hard to make this work - clubs can charge what they do without significant enrollment problems (last I heard we were in a slowly devolving recession and it obviously hasn't crushed teams noticably).

by posterbored 11/14/2009, 11:37 am

IMO, the focus for NTX clubs to producing teams that win games. Texans have obviously done a fantastic job of this. However, that focus on "team" has been to the detriment of individual players, which I think is shown by the lack of representation at the national level.

If players had to play on teams based on geographic areas, I think it would force the coaches to focus more on developing the players they have, rather than simply starting U11 by getting the biggest, fastest kids, winning games, then replacing their bottom tier players every year with better players, which is made easier because they won a bunch of games the year before.

In reference to how the young academy teams are run, it points to the same thing. What if the texans had 5 teams in each age group, and split their top 5 players up on each team, then did the same thing with their next 5 best players, etc... The top kids of each team would, imo, learn and develop more being the "studs" on the team, rather than being role players on a top team that wins a bunch of games.

The reason it seems the smaller clubs supposedly develop players but the top clubs don't, is because of what I just described above. The best kid on Texans North, I think is going to develop much more than the 15th player on the top Texans team. I'm quite certain the Texans North team wants/tries to win every game just as much as the top Texans team, so the top players play more (playing more means develops more). It isn't that the top Texans teams don't develop players, but I do think the pressure to win, negatively affects the development of the lesser players on the team, so the 15th player on the top team was better at U10 than the top player on the north team but, after a year or two, that north player surpasses him.

So, if you believe what I said above, every parent in N. Texas can control how his bb or dd develops. I personally want my son to be the/a stud on the highest possible team. If that means he needs to be on a D2 or D3 team at U11, so be it. I'd rather him be the top player on a D2/D3 team, than a bench player on a D2 or D1 team. I'm still going to make sure the coach is quality though as that is very important as well.

by plantit 11/14/2009, 5:09 pm

posterbored wrote:IMO, the focus for NTX clubs to producing teams that win games. Texans have obviously done a fantastic job of this. However, that focus on "team" has been to the detriment of individual players, which I think is shown by the lack of representation at the national level.

If players had to play on teams based on geographic areas, I think it would force the coaches to focus more on developing the players they have, rather than simply starting U11 by getting the biggest, fastest kids, winning games, then replacing their bottom tier players every year with better players, which is made easier because they won a bunch of games the year before.

In reference to how the young academy teams are run, it points to the same thing. What if the texans had 5 teams in each age group, and split their top 5 players up on each team, then did the same thing with their next 5 best players, etc... The top kids of each team would, imo, learn and develop more being the "studs" on the team, rather than being role players on a top team that wins a bunch of games.

The reason it seems the smaller clubs supposedly develop players but the top clubs don't, is because of what I just described above. The best kid on Texans North, I think is going to develop much more than the 15th player on the top Texans team. I'm quite certain the Texans North team wants/tries to win every game just as much as the top Texans team, so the top players play more (playing more means develops more). It isn't that the top Texans teams don't develop players, but I do think the pressure to win, negatively affects the development of the lesser players on the team, so the 15th player on the top team was better at U10 than the top player on the north team but, after a year or two, that north player surpasses him.

So, if you believe what I said above, every parent in N. Texas can control how his bb or dd develops. I personally want my son to be the/a stud on the highest possible team. If that means he needs to be on a D2 or D3 team at U11, so be it. I'd rather him be the top player on a D2/D3 team, than a bench player on a D2 or D1 team. I'm still going to make sure the coach is quality though as that is very important as well.

Good points poster.

by regulator 11/19/2009, 8:29 am

You may want check there are 4 95B players from NTX in National team pool.

by FlatBack4 11/19/2009, 9:29 am

plantit wrote:
posterbored wrote:IMO, the focus for NTX clubs to producing teams that win games. Texans have obviously done a fantastic job of this. However, that focus on "team" has been to the detriment of individual players, which I think is shown by the lack of representation at the national level.

If players had to play on teams based on geographic areas, I think it would force the coaches to focus more on developing the players they have, rather than simply starting U11 by getting the biggest, fastest kids, winning games, then replacing their bottom tier players every year with better players, which is made easier because they won a bunch of games the year before.

In reference to how the young academy teams are run, it points to the same thing. What if the texans had 5 teams in each age group, and split their top 5 players up on each team, then did the same thing with their next 5 best players, etc... The top kids of each team would, imo, learn and develop more being the "studs" on the team, rather than being role players on a top team that wins a bunch of games.

The reason it seems the smaller clubs supposedly develop players but the top clubs don't, is because of what I just described above. The best kid on Texans North, I think is going to develop much more than the 15th player on the top Texans team. I'm quite certain the Texans North team wants/tries to win every game just as much as the top Texans team, so the top players play more (playing more means develops more). It isn't that the top Texans teams don't develop players, but I do think the pressure to win, negatively affects the development of the lesser players on the team, so the 15th player on the top team was better at U10 than the top player on the north team but, after a year or two, that north player surpasses him.

So, if you believe what I said above, every parent in N. Texas can control how his bb or dd develops. I personally want my son to be the/a stud on the highest possible team. If that means he needs to be on a D2 or D3 team at U11, so be it. I'd rather him be the top player on a D2/D3 team, than a bench player on a D2 or D1 team. I'm still going to make sure the coach is quality though as that is very important as well.

Good points poster.

Said another way, NTX clubs are after the almighty dollar. Most pinhead parents want their kid to be on a successful team, and many would rather be on a successful team even though their kid may rarely play.

With regards to NTX's national team representation, don't worry about it. They aren't all that successful anyway.

by go99 11/19/2009, 9:51 am

yes they aren't that successful and that is kind of the point. The US teams isn't any good because the players are mediocre at best. N Texas seems to be doing an even worse job of producing talent. I'll take your word on the 4 players, they weren't on the site before but maybe they are now. Still well below some other areas.

by Ibystander 11/19/2009, 10:05 am

It's amazing how many kids don't know how to pass a ball. Is it THAT hard a skill to teach...or acquire? Pass the ball...on the ground.

by Axxman 11/19/2009, 10:54 am

Ibystander wrote:It's amazing how many kids don't know how to pass a ball. Is it THAT hard a skill to teach...or acquire? Pass the ball...on the ground.

Sounds like an issue with the Comets.........? And besides, what do you need to pass the ball for, it's all about development of your bb right? Just tell them to keep the ball and develop, why pass it. You don't want the kid your bb passes it to developing do you?

by Ibystander 11/19/2009, 11:29 am

Axxman wrote:
Ibystander wrote:It's amazing how many kids don't know how to pass a ball. Is it THAT hard a skill to teach...or acquire? Pass the ball...on the ground.
Sounds like an issue with the Comets.........? And besides, what do you need to pass the ball for, it's all about development of your bb right? Just tell them to keep the ball and develop, why pass it. You don't want the kid your bb passes it to developing do you?

Stop stalking me, axx. State of N Texas soccer Icon_eek

No issue with Comets in particular, issues with the overwhelming majority of teams I've seen thus far. I'm on the right thread this time, non? If you look at the pros, even the US team's passing skills are pretty poor. Few crisp, clean passes. Maybe that's the problem with our soccer, we don't stress the importance of good passing. As far as the teams go, I like DT's and Barca's passing skills most. Haven't seen all teams, but most have inadequate passing skills.

by Axxman 11/19/2009, 12:04 pm

Ibystander wrote:
Axxman wrote:
Ibystander wrote:It's amazing how many kids don't know how to pass a ball. Is it THAT hard a skill to teach...or acquire? Pass the ball...on the ground.
Sounds like an issue with the Comets.........? And besides, what do you need to pass the ball for, it's all about development of your bb right? Just tell them to keep the ball and develop, why pass it. You don't want the kid your bb passes it to developing do you?
Stop stalking me, axx. No issue with Comets in particular, issues with the overwhelming majority of teams I've seen thus far. I'm on the right thread this time, non? If you look at the pros, even the US team's passing skills are pretty poor. Few crisp, clean passes. Maybe that's the problem with our soccer, we don't stress the importance of good passing. As far as the teams go, I like DT's and Barca's passing skills most. Haven't seen all teams, but most have inadequate passing skills.

Don't flatter yourself.

by my2cents 11/19/2009, 12:27 pm

regulator wrote:You may want check there are 4 95B players from NTX in National team pool.

Only two made the regional pool so I can't see how that turned into four on the national team.

by go99 11/19/2009, 12:39 pm

Had a chance to play against a 99 team from columbia. The individual skill of all the players on that team and their understanding of soccer was well beyond anything we have here. They would probably not even be able to stay in D1 here now, but by the time it actually matters our kids will not be able to stand on the same field. BTW I think everyones passing is poor just to different degrees. It's not only technique but also and understanding of the "whens and wheres" plus the movement.