ODP Regional Camp Experience

omega striker wrote:

my2cents wrote:

omega striker wrote:

my2cents wrote:From The Pitch
Martin Salas and Christian Ramirez were both invited to participate in the U14 Boys' National Team Camp, which was held at California's Home Depot Center, May 1-8. Martin and Christian were two of 38 players that were invited to participate. Both boys play locally for FC Dallas. It was interesting to note that of the 38 players invited to the camp, 30 of them were from the Olympic Development Program.

cool for them! I wonder how much that cost?

I would imagine the same as the regional trials, disney tournament or international trips. $1000 or apply for financial assistance that is available on a needs basis.

wow thats alot of mula!

Includes airfare, room and board.

Congrats to the well deserving kids that were selected. And lets be clear that kids that lack quality are not selected out of the regional NTX team. I've had two kids involved in the ODP process and loved the challenges and experience of the regional camp. I was also involved a couple of years ago with a kid who was a NT pool player for several years. It is a great experience regardless they are called into pool games, or being held over. Does this justify $700? That is a personal question. But, if you are going with the expectation of "hold over or bust" and your child is not of above average physical build and of above average pace then you will not be happy. It would be easy to weed out the kids before camp with a stop watch and max strength weight test.

And, if you were expecting something useful out of the camp evaluations to justify your child's short comings and to use as a tool for improvement, you will be disappointed. Look at the evaluation form. You can see the criteria that is written on the form. And, that criteria is largely BS. If your kid is on a regional team and has loads of pace and a physical presence, then the evaluation will be used to rationalize those physical differences and call them technical areas. There is little to no evidence that the regional coaches that evaluate are versed in the fundamentals of "speed of play". If you kid is going to camp, ensure that he/she dribble up field every chance that he/she is given. Loss of possession and basic decision making errors are of no consequence. Now, depending on your NTX coach, that may or may not be a problem, but as for the selection process go selfish every time.

American soccer is still all about athletes. I feel that until decision making and technique were a large part of the NTX selection process. However, at the next level, kids with only one useful foot, severe technical limitations, and poor decision making are just fine with USSF. In the rest of the world, this process is backwards from what we are doing. You can agree or disagree with the defacto selection criteria, but these are the targets that your player needs to work towards.

So, if you want to know what your kid needs to do to be a holdover? Get faster, stronger, and become more selfish with the ball.

Jedi Mind Tricks wrote:Congrats to the well deserving kids that were selected. And lets be clear that kids that lack quality are not selected out of the regional NTX team. I've had two kids involved in the ODP process and loved the challenges and experience of the regional camp. I was also involved a couple of years ago with a kid who was a NT pool player for several years. It is a great experience regardless they are called into pool games, or being held over. Does this justify $700? That is a personal question. But, if you are going with the expectation of "hold over or bust" and your child is not of above average physical build and of above average pace then you will not be happy. It would be easy to weed out the kids before camp with a stop watch and max strength weight test.

And, if you were expecting something useful out of the camp evaluations to justify your child's short comings and to use as a tool for improvement, you will be disappointed. Look at the evaluation form. You can see the criteria that is written on the form. And, that criteria is largely BS. If your kid is on a regional team and has loads of pace and a physical presence, then the evaluation will be used to rationalize those physical differences and call them technical areas. There is little to no evidence that the regional coaches that evaluate are versed in the fundamentals of "speed of play". If you kid is going to camp, ensure that he/she dribble up field every chance that he/she is given. Loss of possession and basic decision making errors are of no consequence. Now, depending on your NTX coach, that may or may not be a problem, but as for the selection process go selfish every time.

American soccer is still all about athletes. I feel that until decision making and technique were a large part of the NTX selection process. However, at the next level, kids with only one useful foot, severe technical limitations, and poor decision making are just fine with USSF. In the rest of the world, this process is backwards from what we are doing. You can agree or disagree with the defacto selection criteria, but these are the targets that your player needs to work towards.

So, if you want to know what your kid needs to do to be a holdover? Get faster, stronger, and become more selfish with the ball.

well said sir!

Jedi Mind Tricks wrote:Congrats to the well deserving kids that were selected. And lets be clear that kids that lack quality are not selected out of the regional NTX team. I've had two kids involved in the ODP process and loved the challenges and experience of the regional camp. I was also involved a couple of years ago with a kid who was a NT pool player for several years. It is a great experience regardless they are called into pool games, or being held over. Does this justify $700? That is a personal question. But, if you are going with the expectation of "hold over or bust" and your child is not of above average physical build and of above average pace then you will not be happy. It would be easy to weed out the kids before camp with a stop watch and max strength weight test.

And, if you were expecting something useful out of the camp evaluations to justify your child's short comings and to use as a tool for improvement, you will be disappointed. Look at the evaluation form. You can see the criteria that is written on the form. And, that criteria is largely BS. If your kid is on a regional team and has loads of pace and a physical presence, then the evaluation will be used to rationalize those physical differences and call them technical areas. There is little to no evidence that the regional coaches that evaluate are versed in the fundamentals of "speed of play". If you kid is going to camp, ensure that he/she dribble up field every chance that he/she is given. Loss of possession and basic decision making errors are of no consequence. Now, depending on your NTX coach, that may or may not be a problem, but as for the selection process go selfish every time.

American soccer is still all about athletes. I feel that until decision making and technique were a large part of the NTX selection process. However, at the next level, kids with only one useful foot, severe technical limitations, and poor decision making are just fine with USSF. In the rest of the world, this process is backwards from what we are doing. You can agree or disagree with the defacto selection criteria, but these are the targets that your player needs to work towards.

So, if you want to know what your kid needs to do to be a holdover? Get faster, stronger, and become more selfish with the ball.

You say you were involved. How many regional camps did you, not your kid, actually attend? It is really funny because in both the NTX pool and the pool play at the regional I have seen many really talented ball hogs not make the NTX team or be one and done at the regional pool games. I saw very little long ball in the three camps I have watched, unlike what is played by some of the stud filled top NTX teams. I saw an amazing kid this year who must have gotten the same advise your giving. The pool game he was in he beat the first and usually the second defender EVERY time. The problem was he then tried for the third, fourth or fifth too. He resulted in a turnover absolutely every possession he had in that half. He did not play the second half or another pool game. So according to all I am hearing here the regional and national coaches don't have a clue. The college coaches out there don't have a clue. So who does? The guy who gave your kid a great eval for the check you wrote?

Our BB had a great time at camp as well. We went over the eval with him, but did not discuss the evaluator!

It sounds like regional camp was administered professionally. Compared to local evals, team selections, regional camp seems to have better and quantitatively more eyes on the players. (I was not there at the camp)

I know players from PA teams leaving ODP due to the team placements and giving kids the wrong messages. I think it is mostly due to the difficulty of evaluating each player in a short time frame. Coach/player ratio at the local level doesn't seem to be adequate for a fair, accurate and complete evaluation. There may be some politics at the local level as well, but they tend to straigthen up at the regional level. Even, at the local level, I believe that every player is going to end-up where they should be... It is understably a slow and painful process for some parents.

After all being said and done, there are not huge gaps, major differences between most of the ODP players. There are marjinal differences in most cases and at this level a marjinal advantage can get you to the nationals or a disadvantage cost you the national camp.

We are planning on continuing with the ODP program along with the PA, and see if it benefits his game. Given the PA time commitment, we may end up quitting ODP as well but we are going to hang in there for a while.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it is no different with coaches. In years past my bb went to ODP camp but was never heldover. He had a great time and I think it was helpful however the evaluations were very generic. To do an evaluation well it takes time and thought. The ones I have seen were probably done in 5 minutes. The North Texas coach that was there at the time told my son he was a very good player however he really didn't like his style of play. He had played for the same CL coach for 4 years and played his system as taught. It is so subjective but a good lesson.

How did the 95 boys do in their regional games?

Friday beat Louisiana 5-1 Went down 1-0 in first 5 minutes then got it together and destroyed them.
Saturday- went down 2-0 against top rank NC in first ten minutes. Then played even rest of 1st half. Second half started in NTX faver . About 15 minutes in NTX player carded out. NTX absolute destroyed them the rest of the way but still lost 2-1. NC never even got over half field the last 20 minutes of game. Unfortunate slow start.
Sunday- lost 2-1 to Georgia. Short players to pick up team and rested pool players. Definitely winnable with full squad.
Monday. Beat or tied pick up squad. Don't remember score. It was a team comprised of players randomly picked from various teams. Alot of dead legs in this one.

my2cents wrote:Friday beat Louisiana 5-1 Went down 1-0 in first 5 minutes then got it together and destroyed them.
Saturday- went down 2-0 against top rank NC in first ten minutes. Then played even rest of 1st half. Second half started in NTX faver . About 15 minutes in NTX player carded out. NTX absolute destroyed them the rest of the way but still lost 2-1. NC never even got over half field the last 20 minutes of game. Unfortunate slow start.
Sunday- lost 2-1 to Georgia. Short players to pick up team and rested pool players. Definitely winnable with full squad.
Monday. Beat or tied pick up squad. Don't remember score. It was a team comprised of players randomly picked from various teams. Alot of dead legs in this one.

What do you mean by short players? How may kids did they take to camp?

Sorry, that was missleading. Took 18 to camp. Had 2 players gone to the pick up team and were trying to rest the 5 that were chosen for the pool game that night and thus limited their play to a half or less. Did not actually play short. If we had not lost already the 5 pool players would have played the entire game and no one would have gone to the pick up team. I think we would have won easily under those conditions.

my2cents wrote:Sorry, that was missleading. Took 18 to camp. Had 2 players gone to the pick up team and were trying to rest the 5 that were chosen for the pool game that night and thus limited their play to a half or less. Did not actually play short. If we had not lost already the 5 pool players would have played the entire game and no one would have gone to the pick up team. I think we would have won easily under those conditions.

Thanks for the clarification.
However, aren't the winners sent on to Nationals?

Its Me wrote:

my2cents wrote:Sorry, that was missleading. Took 18 to camp. Had 2 players gone to the pick up team and were trying to rest the 5 that were chosen for the pool game that night and thus limited their play to a half or less. Did not actually play short. If we had not lost already the 5 pool players would have played the entire game and no one would have gone to the pick up team. I think we would have won easily under those conditions.

Thanks for the clarification.
However, aren't the winners sent on to Nationals?

Yes I believe so. I think North Carolina won it.

NTskeptic wrote:Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it is no different with coaches. In years past my bb went to ODP camp but was never heldover. He had a great time and I think it was helpful however the evaluations were very generic. To do an evaluation well it takes time and thought. The ones I have seen were probably done in 5 minutes. The North Texas coach that was there at the time told my son he was a very good player however he really didn't like his style of play. He had played for the same CL coach for 4 years and played his system as taught. It is so subjective but a good lesson.

This was my son's 2nd ODP camp and he was a little frustrated with the eval this year. The guy went down the list of each area and told his he was region team material for each area and then at the end said..... "Well I guess we should have picked you. Sorry. Just keep working hard.". My son can take criticism and while he was not happy he did not make it he was very unsure what to do with this eval. It was like a ... Oh well...When he left the guy said said better luck next year. He did have fun and wants to go back next year but we won't rely on luck. Just work hard. I don't think some of these coaches have been around kids enough to understand that saying things like this is a huge let down and giving them goals they can work toward is better than relying on luck. We don't do luck. That's crap. He'll have to earn it.

omega striker wrote:

go99 wrote:if he had fun then thats enough. They have already proven at the highest levels that they have no idea how to evalute players

ain't that the truth!

Heard from several that the only suggestions the "evaluators" had for our smaller boys was "you need to grow." If that's their focus, they are clueless and no wonder we struggle on a world stage. I cannot believe these words are coming out of my mouth, but I actually agree with Go99. Man, that tasted bad.

Some people need to get their facts straight before they start running their mouths. The national team selection is not based on ODP. Players are recommended by their coaches and then scouted at various games and tournaments. The national camp in California doesn't cost anything everything is paid by the National Soccer Federation.

sillymom wrote:Some people need to get their facts straight before they start running their mouths. The national team selection is not based on ODP. Players are recommended by their coaches and then scouted at various games and tournaments. The national camp in California doesn't cost anything everything is paid by the National Soccer Federation.

Your name is pretty accurate, Silly. And, some people (i.e. you) need to learn to read because I certainly never said anything about how the National Team is selected. I have no ill-conceived notion that some nobody coach an an ODP camp in Alabama is going to make the decision regarding anyone's kid making the National Team. I simply made an observation about soccer in the U.S. generally. Bigger, faster, stronger doesn't work on an International stage. I wasn't running my mouth about anything other than some moron in Alabama who thinks you have to be big to play soccer. But thanks, anyway, for setting the facts straight.

sillymom wrote:Some people need to get their facts straight before they start running their mouths. The national team selection is not based on ODP. Players are recommended by their coaches and then scouted at various games and tournaments. The national camp in California doesn't cost anything everything is paid by the National Soccer Federation.

I not sure what exactly you mean by running their mouth but perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension befroe telling others to get their facts straight. The figure of hoew many kids at the camp was, as stated , a quote from The Pitch. If you think otherwise then back it up with something. As for the cost I said "I would imagine" i.e. I don't know for a fact. I have heard of the United States Soccer Federation ( USSF) and United States Youth Soccer (USYS) but who is this National Soccer Federation(NSF?)? Sure you got your facts straight?

The National Team camp that began yesterday in California is FREE. All expenses paid.

Two boys from the NTX region from the 98 ODP camp in Alabama were selected to attend. You can go to the Region III ODP website to see the boys selected for the Region Pool and the boys selected for the National Pool.

I know of at least one other 98 player attending the current California camp. He was scouted in some other way because his does not attend ODP.

Hope this helps.

For the doubters of the value of ODP a quote from Top Drawer Soccer.com

U.S. Soccer held their initial identification camps for the Under-14 age group, as well as camps for the Under-15 age group this month. The US Youth Soccer Olympic Development Program (US Youth Soccer ODP) was again a common thread of those players called into U.S. camps as a total of 171 US Youth Soccer ODP players were selected, accounting for 77 percent of the participants. No other program or league in the U.S. has been as successful as US Youth Soccer ODP in identifying and promoting top players to the U.S. National Teams.


Read more: U14/15 National ID camp selections | Club Soccer Players To Watch(TM) | College Soccer Recruiting News

my2cents wrote:For the doubters of the value of ODP a quote from Top Drawer Soccer.com

U.S. Soccer held their initial identification camps for the Under-14 age group, as well as camps for the Under-15 age group this month. The US Youth Soccer Olympic Development Program (US Youth Soccer ODP) was again a common thread of those players called into U.S. camps as a total of 171 US Youth Soccer ODP players were selected, accounting for 77 percent of the participants. No other program or league in the U.S. has been as successful as US Youth Soccer ODP in identifying and promoting top players to the U.S. National Teams.


Read more: U14/15 National ID camp selections | Club Soccer Players To Watch(TM) | College Soccer Recruiting News

I have been lead to believe that if your kid is at the top of his age group he will play pre-academy and then development academy and that would be the way to the national team.

Do kids participate in both ODP and pre-academy/ Development Academy, or do they have to choose one or the other?

There is no clear path to the National team other than be good enough - it also helps tremendously to be BIGGER, stronger, faster.

Running wrote:

my2cents wrote:For the doubters of the value of ODP a quote from Top Drawer Soccer.com

U.S. Soccer held their initial identification camps for the Under-14 age group, as well as camps for the Under-15 age group this month. The US Youth Soccer Olympic Development Program (US Youth Soccer ODP) was again a common thread of those players called into U.S. camps as a total of 171 US Youth Soccer ODP players were selected, accounting for 77 percent of the participants. No other program or league in the U.S. has been as successful as US Youth Soccer ODP in identifying and promoting top players to the U.S. National Teams.
Read more: U14/15 National ID camp selections | Club Soccer Players To Watch(TM) | College Soccer Recruiting News

I have been lead to believe that if your kid is at the top of his age group he will play pre-academy and then development academy and that would be the way to the national team.

Do kids participate in both ODP and pre-academy/ Development Academy, or do they have to choose one or the other?

Players must choose. DA teams do not allow their players to participate in ODP, high school or any other athletics program. It depends on who you talk to on which way to go. I am not sold on DA and even I was surprised at the 77% figure.

ontherightside wrote:There is no clear path to the National team other than be good enough - it also helps tremendously to be BIGGER, stronger, faster.

I get that but just wanted to know if there was any consensus on the best way to steer a good player.

And shouldn't it be (Smarter, More Skilled and Most Hard Working) as the attributes we need to get the US to the top of the World Stage?

The 77% number is due to the ODP numbers being higher in parts of the country where Academy and Pre-academy have not taken off yet or not offered yet. The ODP numbers here and stronger "Academy" areas are starting to dwindle.

Running wrote:

ontherightside wrote:There is no clear path to the National team other than be good enough - it also helps tremendously to be BIGGER, stronger, faster.

I get that but just wanted to know if there was any consensus on the best way to steer a good player.

And shouldn't it be (Smarter, More Skilled and Most Hard Working) as the attributes we need to get the US to the top of the World Stage?

Forget OTRS- Landon Donovan- period, end of conversation. As for the clear path you have identified the 2. ODP and DA. There are no other paths. Which is right for you depends on your individual circumstances. One thing though, for DA you need to live close to the North Dallas/Plano area because that is where they all are.

my2cents wrote:

Running wrote:

ontherightside wrote:There is no clear path to the National team other than be good enough - it also helps tremendously to be BIGGER, stronger, faster.

I get that but just wanted to know if there was any consensus on the best way to steer a good player.

And shouldn't it be (Smarter, More Skilled and Most Hard Working) as the attributes we need to get the US to the top of the World Stage?

Forget OTRS- Landon Donovan- period, end of conversation. As for the clear path you have identified the 2. ODP and DA. There are no other paths. Which is right for you depends on your individual circumstances. One thing though, for DA you need to live close to the North Dallas/Plano area because that is where they all are.

Solar trains in Grapevine as well.