Texans Fall Festival Seeding process

Laimport wrote:If we play, we really lose in the white bracket.

We win it..."we didn't play anybody" will be the outcry.

That's actually not how it works. It takes time to build a resume, winning one game, two games, one tournament, etc doesn't a champion make. I've seen plenty of teams, both indepedents and those from smaller clubs, win lower brackets and gradually advance, compete, and win in the top brackets (ODY 96B being a prime example, IE 97B being another), like it or not, it doesn't happen overnight. I know you'd like to simply point to the last 6 months of results but the teams you are competing with have years of solid play under their belts. And when comparing results over the last 2 or 3 years, ETXP doesn't look nearly so competitive with top teams.

Like it or not, most teams don't have anything approaching 50% turnover year over year so their body of work from year to year is actually comparable. The fact your team had near 100% turnover and in your mind results from last season are not comparable to results this season doesn't invalidate this approach. It also shouldn't change how teams are evaluated so long as all teams are evaluated under the same set of guidelines.

Beat up everyone you should, beat the teams you shouldn't, and you'll gradually advance. I'm sorry you aren't advancing as fast as you'd like, but that's a risk you take joining what is effectively a brand new team at u16. The issues you are facing are the exact same that any new team would be facing. How this is a surprise to you is somewhat difficult to understand.

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:If we play, we really lose in the white bracket.

We win it..."we didn't play anybody" will be the outcry.

That's actually not how it works. It takes time to build a resume, winning one game, two games, one tournament, etc doesn't a champion make. I've seen plenty of teams, both indepedents and those from smaller clubs, win lower brackets and gradually advance, compete, and win in the top brackets (ODY 96B being a prime example, IE 97B being another), like it or not, it doesn't happen overnight. I know you'd like to simply point to the last 6 months of results but the teams you are competing with have years of solid play under their belts. And when comparing results over the last 2 or 3 years, ETXP doesn't look nearly so competitive with top teams.

Like it or not, most teams don't have anything approaching 50% turnover year over year so their body of work from year to year is actually comparable. The fact your team had near 100% turnover and in your mind results from last season are not comparable to results this season doesn't invalidate this approach. It also shouldn't change how teams are evaluated so long as all teams are evaluated under the same set of guidelines.

Beat up everyone you should, beat the teams you shouldn't, and you'll gradually advance. I'm sorry you aren't advancing as fast as you'd like, but that's a risk you take joining what is effectively a brand new team at u16. The issues you are facing are the exact same that any new team would be facing. How this is a surprise to you is somewhat difficult to understand.

What's difficult to understand is how you can even fathom that we don't at least deserve to be seeded in the qualifying bracket. Especially given the fact that we were told from the beginning 'thus and so'.

Unless...you are just maintaining the status quo...given your current affiliations?

Now, I agree with the core part of your premise. Just that I disagree that it applies to us in our current situation.

I won't rehash what futbolfiend said in his last post.

I'm sorry, but it shouldn't take 2 years just to 'get the chance' to play the top level teams. Not in tournament play anyway.

If you are going to base team levels/seedings strictly based on CL results, then you should disclose that from the beginning. (Of course as of yet, we haven't gotten an explanation as to why we 'aren't good enough to play qualifying bracket.)

You want to argue that we aren't top 8...or even top 12? Fine.

But to say we aren't top 16 is a joke.

Laimport wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:If we play, we really lose in the white bracket.

We win it..."we didn't play anybody" will be the outcry.

That's actually not how it works. It takes time to build a resume, winning one game, two games, one tournament, etc doesn't a champion make. I've seen plenty of teams, both indepedents and those from smaller clubs, win lower brackets and gradually advance, compete, and win in the top brackets (ODY 96B being a prime example, IE 97B being another), like it or not, it doesn't happen overnight. I know you'd like to simply point to the last 6 months of results but the teams you are competing with have years of solid play under their belts. And when comparing results over the last 2 or 3 years, ETXP doesn't look nearly so competitive with top teams.

Like it or not, most teams don't have anything approaching 50% turnover year over year so their body of work from year to year is actually comparable. The fact your team had near 100% turnover and in your mind results from last season are not comparable to results this season doesn't invalidate this approach. It also shouldn't change how teams are evaluated so long as all teams are evaluated under the same set of guidelines.

Beat up everyone you should, beat the teams you shouldn't, and you'll gradually advance. I'm sorry you aren't advancing as fast as you'd like, but that's a risk you take joining what is effectively a brand new team at u16. The issues you are facing are the exact same that any new team would be facing. How this is a surprise to you is somewhat difficult to understand.

What's difficult to understand is how you can even fathom that we don't at least deserve to be seeded in the qualifying bracket. Especially given the fact that we were told from the beginning 'thus and so'.

Unless...you are just maintaining the status quo...given your current affiliations?

Now, I agree with the core part of your premise. Just that I disagree that it applies to us in our current situation.

I won't rehash what futbolfiend said in his last post.

I'm sorry, but it shouldn't take 2 years just to 'get the chance' to play the top level teams. Not in tournament play anyway.

If you are going to base team levels/seedings strictly based on CL results, then you should disclose that from the beginning. (Of course as of yet, we haven't gotten an explanation as to why we 'aren't good enough to play qualifying bracket.)

You want to argue that we aren't top 8...or even top 12? Fine.

But to say we aren't top 16 is a joke.

im not here to talk about the decision to exclude us from the Red Bracket but just to respectfully argue a premise in Dragonslayer's post about using long term results to properly seed a team.

We didn't have 100% turnover just fleshed out a good roster with some good kids (2 having played 95 club ball in Plano and 1 playing 98 club ball in C2. It is a new team and winning 3 consecutive tournaments two in DFW winning games against teams that most likely will be in the qualifying bracket has us miffed--understandably. I can't see seeding for March Madness or BCS based on last years results. What's done is done, I'm sure they will use your line of reasoning to explain away their decision.. If you take IE out of the GS rankings we are 6 in NTX. Either they have relevance or they don't if you say they don't ok we can agree to disagree if you want to substitute your own objective/subjective rankings ok fine please share and most importantly have the tournament relay that information to prospective entrants.

something along these lines:

The Dallas Texans wish to invite prospective clubs to apply for the Dallas Texans Fall Festival. The top 16 ranked teams will be placed in a qualifying bracket where the winner (any team in the top 16) or the finalist (Non NTX invited to play in Red Bracket) will advance to the Dallas Cup. Rankings will be based on the following:

PA teams in their order of League Play
CL1 teams in their order of League Play
CL2 teams in their order of League Play
CL3 teams in their order of League PLay
PLano D1 top 2
Arlington top 2
Any team from outside of NTX
Any other Non Metro NTX team that doesn't post on this forum
ETX

Laimport wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:If we play, we really lose in the white bracket.

We win it..."we didn't play anybody" will be the outcry.

That's actually not how it works. It takes time to build a resume, winning one game, two games, one tournament, etc doesn't a champion make. I've seen plenty of teams, both indepedents and those from smaller clubs, win lower brackets and gradually advance, compete, and win in the top brackets (ODY 96B being a prime example, IE 97B being another), like it or not, it doesn't happen overnight. I know you'd like to simply point to the last 6 months of results but the teams you are competing with have years of solid play under their belts. And when comparing results over the last 2 or 3 years, ETXP doesn't look nearly so competitive with top teams.

Like it or not, most teams don't have anything approaching 50% turnover year over year so their body of work from year to year is actually comparable. The fact your team had near 100% turnover and in your mind results from last season are not comparable to results this season doesn't invalidate this approach. It also shouldn't change how teams are evaluated so long as all teams are evaluated under the same set of guidelines.

Beat up everyone you should, beat the teams you shouldn't, and you'll gradually advance. I'm sorry you aren't advancing as fast as you'd like, but that's a risk you take joining what is effectively a brand new team at u16. The issues you are facing are the exact same that any new team would be facing. How this is a surprise to you is somewhat difficult to understand.

What's difficult to understand is how you can even fathom that we don't at least deserve to be seeded in the qualifying bracket. Especially given the fact that we were told from the beginning 'thus and so'.

Unless...you are just maintaining the status quo...given your current affiliations?

Now, I agree with the core part of your premise. Just that I disagree that it applies to us in our current situation.

I won't rehash what futbolfiend said in his last post.

I'm sorry, but it shouldn't take 2 years just to 'get the chance' to play the top level teams. Not in tournament play anyway.

If you are going to base team levels/seedings strictly based on CL results, then you should disclose that from the beginning. (Of course as of yet, we haven't gotten an explanation as to why we 'aren't good enough to play qualifying bracket.)

You want to argue that we aren't top 8...or even top 12? Fine.

But to say we aren't top 16 is a joke.

It's amazing how anyone's opinion that disagrees with you is a "joke". I'm sorry you don't believe it takes time to prove yourself but many will insist it does. It says nothing about status quo, what is says is that on any given weekend, any team can win or lose, but over time, the better teams typically come out on top. You don't have that history yet. I'm sorry this works to your disadvantage but that doesn't make the opinion a "joke". What is shows is that you are biased to the point of being incapable of having a logical conversation on the subject.

As I've stated previously, I'd love to see you in the qualifying bracket, if for no other reason than to see you beaten soundly so you'd shut up. But if that means a team that deserves to be there, a team that has put up solid results for more than the past 6 months doesn't get invited, then I don't believe you deserve to be there. My opinion, it's no more a joke that yours.

Based on the above, I could easily argue that your wins are simply a fluke and that if you played those teams again, you'd lose. That those win's shouldn't matter as you haven't played enough games against reasonable competition to prove you can consistently play at a high level. You would, of course, vehemently disagree but there's no proof you can produce that would demonstrates otherwise (outside of your opinion) because you don't have a consistent track record of playing at the level you believe your team currently plays at.

Keep playing at that level, you'll get your chance. Though I'd be careful about defaming tournament organizers, you might find yourself left out in the cold or not invited to play in tournaments you might otherwise wish to be involved in.

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:If we play, we really lose in the white bracket.

We win it..."we didn't play anybody" will be the outcry.

That's actually not how it works. It takes time to build a resume, winning one game, two games, one tournament, etc doesn't a champion make. I've seen plenty of teams, both indepedents and those from smaller clubs, win lower brackets and gradually advance, compete, and win in the top brackets (ODY 96B being a prime example, IE 97B being another), like it or not, it doesn't happen overnight. I know you'd like to simply point to the last 6 months of results but the teams you are competing with have years of solid play under their belts. And when comparing results over the last 2 or 3 years, ETXP doesn't look nearly so competitive with top teams.

Like it or not, most teams don't have anything approaching 50% turnover year over year so their body of work from year to year is actually comparable. The fact your team had near 100% turnover and in your mind results from last season are not comparable to results this season doesn't invalidate this approach. It also shouldn't change how teams are evaluated so long as all teams are evaluated under the same set of guidelines.

Beat up everyone you should, beat the teams you shouldn't, and you'll gradually advance. I'm sorry you aren't advancing as fast as you'd like, but that's a risk you take joining what is effectively a brand new team at u16. The issues you are facing are the exact same that any new team would be facing. How this is a surprise to you is somewhat difficult to understand.

What's difficult to understand is how you can even fathom that we don't at least deserve to be seeded in the qualifying bracket. Especially given the fact that we were told from the beginning 'thus and so'.

Unless...you are just maintaining the status quo...given your current affiliations?

Now, I agree with the core part of your premise. Just that I disagree that it applies to us in our current situation.

I won't rehash what futbolfiend said in his last post.

I'm sorry, but it shouldn't take 2 years just to 'get the chance' to play the top level teams. Not in tournament play anyway.

If you are going to base team levels/seedings strictly based on CL results, then you should disclose that from the beginning. (Of course as of yet, we haven't gotten an explanation as to why we 'aren't good enough to play qualifying bracket.)

You want to argue that we aren't top 8...or even top 12? Fine.

But to say we aren't top 16 is a joke.

It's amazing how anyone's opinion that disagrees with you is a "joke". I'm sorry you don't believe it takes time to prove yourself but many will insist it does. It says nothing about status quo, what is says is that on any given weekend, any team can win or lose, but over time, the better teams typically come out on top. You don't have that history yet. I'm sorry this works to your disadvantage but that doesn't make the opinion a "joke". What is shows is that you are biased to the point of being incapable of having a logical conversation on the subject.

As I've stated previously, I'd love to see you in the qualifying bracket, if for no other reason than to see you beaten soundly so you'd shut up. But if that means a team that deserves to be there, a team that has put up solid results for more than the past 6 months doesn't get invited, then I don't believe you deserve to be there. My opinion, it's no more a joke that yours.

Based on the above, I could easily argue that your wins are simply a fluke and that if you played those teams again, you'd lose. That those win's shouldn't matter as you haven't played enough games against reasonable competition to prove you can consistently play at a high level. You would, of course, vehemently disagree but there's no proof you can produce that would demonstrates otherwise (outside of your opinion) because you don't have a consistent track record of playing at the level you believe your team currently plays at.

Keep playing at that level, you'll get your chance. Though I'd be careful about defaming tournament organizers, you might find yourself left out in the cold or not invited to play in tournaments you might otherwise wish to be involved in.

sorry, i disagree. if you were told in writing you would be playing in a certain bracket for qualifying, then paid your money and that was switched.....YOU ARE OWED A REFUND. No one would pay for corvette, than have someone say, i will pull it up for you and then they come back with a civic and say sorry that's too bad. that's fraud, and any reasonable person would agree.

I understand why they are not in the group but I also thing they should be given a refund. I wouldn't expect to see it coming back from Texans.

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:If we play, we really lose in the white bracket.

We win it..."we didn't play anybody" will be the outcry.

That's actually not how it works. It takes time to build a resume, winning one game, two games, one tournament, etc doesn't a champion make. I've seen plenty of teams, both indepedents and those from smaller clubs, win lower brackets and gradually advance, compete, and win in the top brackets (ODY 96B being a prime example, IE 97B being another), like it or not, it doesn't happen overnight. I know you'd like to simply point to the last 6 months of results but the teams you are competing with have years of solid play under their belts. And when comparing results over the last 2 or 3 years, ETXP doesn't look nearly so competitive with top teams.

Like it or not, most teams don't have anything approaching 50% turnover year over year so their body of work from year to year is actually comparable. The fact your team had near 100% turnover and in your mind results from last season are not comparable to results this season doesn't invalidate this approach. It also shouldn't change how teams are evaluated so long as all teams are evaluated under the same set of guidelines.

Beat up everyone you should, beat the teams you shouldn't, and you'll gradually advance. I'm sorry you aren't advancing as fast as you'd like, but that's a risk you take joining what is effectively a brand new team at u16. The issues you are facing are the exact same that any new team would be facing. How this is a surprise to you is somewhat difficult to understand.

What's difficult to understand is how you can even fathom that we don't at least deserve to be seeded in the qualifying bracket. Especially given the fact that we were told from the beginning 'thus and so'.

Unless...you are just maintaining the status quo...given your current affiliations?

Now, I agree with the core part of your premise. Just that I disagree that it applies to us in our current situation.

I won't rehash what futbolfiend said in his last post.

I'm sorry, but it shouldn't take 2 years just to 'get the chance' to play the top level teams. Not in tournament play anyway.

If you are going to base team levels/seedings strictly based on CL results, then you should disclose that from the beginning. (Of course as of yet, we haven't gotten an explanation as to why we 'aren't good enough to play qualifying bracket.)

You want to argue that we aren't top 8...or even top 12? Fine.

But to say we aren't top 16 is a joke.

It's amazing how anyone's opinion that disagrees with you is a "joke". I'm sorry you don't believe it takes time to prove yourself but many will insist it does. It says nothing about status quo, what is says is that on any given weekend, any team can win or lose, but over time, the better teams typically come out on top. You don't have that history yet. I'm sorry this works to your disadvantage but that doesn't make the opinion a "joke". What is shows is that you are biased to the point of being incapable of having a logical conversation on the subject.

As I've stated previously, I'd love to see you in the qualifying bracket, if for no other reason than to see you beaten soundly so you'd shut up. But if that means a team that deserves to be there, a team that has put up solid results for more than the past 6 months doesn't get invited, then I don't believe you deserve to be there. My opinion, it's no more a joke that yours.

Based on the above, I could easily argue that your wins are simply a fluke and that if you played those teams again, you'd lose. That those win's shouldn't matter as you haven't played enough games against reasonable competition to prove you can consistently play at a high level. You would, of course, vehemently disagree but there's no proof you can produce that would demonstrates otherwise (outside of your opinion) because you don't have a consistent track record of playing at the level you believe your team currently plays at.

Keep playing at that level, you'll get your chance. Though I'd be careful about defaming tournament organizers, you might find yourself left out in the cold or not invited to play in tournaments you might otherwise wish to be involved in.

Let me be clear on this, dragonstryker. I didn't say your analogy/reasoning was a 'joke'. That was directed at the flawed logic of how/why Texans would exclude us from the qualifying bracket.

Again, not directed at you. Didn't mean to offend.

I don't think gs rankings are flawed so badly that we should be bracketed to play teams that ranked anywhere from 25th to 40th in NTX.

The 'joke' is that we aren't/wouldn't be included in at LEAST the top 16!

Is our 6th ranking in NTX accurate? Probably not. Top 10? Highly debatable. Top 15...I say yes with full confidence. Top 20? Hell yes.

That being the case and giving partial credence to rankings...then yes, I'm highly agitated that we would be excluded from the top 16 teams in this tournament.

Couple that with how we have been deceived and I'd say we have a strong case.

In layman's terms, you don't tell someone they're 'in' and then say 'you're out' with no explanation.

I have seen the email sequences and our coach was quite civil and tactful.

All we got were delaying tactics and now an implied 'threat' if we backed out.

For what, $600?

If they think for whatever reason we don't deserve top bracket seeding, that's fine. But at least give us the opportunity to make other arrangements.

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Or, are you part of the Texans group? As a parent or coach?

If you are then your credibility in this matter is compromised.

soccerisgood123 wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:If we play, we really lose in the white bracket.

We win it..."we didn't play anybody" will be the outcry.

That's actually not how it works. It takes time to build a resume, winning one game, two games, one tournament, etc doesn't a champion make. I've seen plenty of teams, both indepedents and those from smaller clubs, win lower brackets and gradually advance, compete, and win in the top brackets (ODY 96B being a prime example, IE 97B being another), like it or not, it doesn't happen overnight. I know you'd like to simply point to the last 6 months of results but the teams you are competing with have years of solid play under their belts. And when comparing results over the last 2 or 3 years, ETXP doesn't look nearly so competitive with top teams.

Like it or not, most teams don't have anything approaching 50% turnover year over year so their body of work from year to year is actually comparable. The fact your team had near 100% turnover and in your mind results from last season are not comparable to results this season doesn't invalidate this approach. It also shouldn't change how teams are evaluated so long as all teams are evaluated under the same set of guidelines.

Beat up everyone you should, beat the teams you shouldn't, and you'll gradually advance. I'm sorry you aren't advancing as fast as you'd like, but that's a risk you take joining what is effectively a brand new team at u16. The issues you are facing are the exact same that any new team would be facing. How this is a surprise to you is somewhat difficult to understand.

What's difficult to understand is how you can even fathom that we don't at least deserve to be seeded in the qualifying bracket. Especially given the fact that we were told from the beginning 'thus and so'.

Unless...you are just maintaining the status quo...given your current affiliations?

Now, I agree with the core part of your premise. Just that I disagree that it applies to us in our current situation.

I won't rehash what futbolfiend said in his last post.

I'm sorry, but it shouldn't take 2 years just to 'get the chance' to play the top level teams. Not in tournament play anyway.

If you are going to base team levels/seedings strictly based on CL results, then you should disclose that from the beginning. (Of course as of yet, we haven't gotten an explanation as to why we 'aren't good enough to play qualifying bracket.)

You want to argue that we aren't top 8...or even top 12? Fine.

But to say we aren't top 16 is a joke.

It's amazing how anyone's opinion that disagrees with you is a "joke". I'm sorry you don't believe it takes time to prove yourself but many will insist it does. It says nothing about status quo, what is says is that on any given weekend, any team can win or lose, but over time, the better teams typically come out on top. You don't have that history yet. I'm sorry this works to your disadvantage but that doesn't make the opinion a "joke". What is shows is that you are biased to the point of being incapable of having a logical conversation on the subject.

As I've stated previously, I'd love to see you in the qualifying bracket, if for no other reason than to see you beaten soundly so you'd shut up. But if that means a team that deserves to be there, a team that has put up solid results for more than the past 6 months doesn't get invited, then I don't believe you deserve to be there. My opinion, it's no more a joke that yours.

Based on the above, I could easily argue that your wins are simply a fluke and that if you played those teams again, you'd lose. That those win's shouldn't matter as you haven't played enough games against reasonable competition to prove you can consistently play at a high level. You would, of course, vehemently disagree but there's no proof you can produce that would demonstrates otherwise (outside of your opinion) because you don't have a consistent track record of playing at the level you believe your team currently plays at.

Keep playing at that level, you'll get your chance. Though I'd be careful about defaming tournament organizers, you might find yourself left out in the cold or not invited to play in tournaments you might otherwise wish to be involved in.

sorry, i disagree. if you were told in writing you would be playing in a certain bracket for qualifying, then paid your money and that was switched.....YOU ARE OWED A REFUND. No one would pay for corvette, than have someone say, i will pull it up for you and then they come back with a civic and say sorry that's too bad. that's fraud, and any reasonable person would agree.

I agree they are due a refund. My point was that showing up and blitzing the white bracket would do them more good than taking their ball and going home while hurling insults at the tournament director and the host club. LA seems to believe that even winning the white bracket wouldn't benefit his beloved team.

I also pointed out that there are valid arguments against ETXP being in the qualifying bracket. The fact that LA doesn't agree with them doesn't, in and of itself, mean that opinion or rationale is a "joke".

It should also be noted that if this team and it's representatives can't hold a civil discourse with someone holding an opinion differing from their own without resulting to insults (cand calling someone's opinion a "joke" certainly qualifies), they are likely going to have a hard time getting into any top tournaments (or top brackets within top tournaments). As I suspect they will have to "argue their case" in most instances in order to get into the bracket they desire as I suspect many will be of the opinion outlined above (i.e. not enough body of work to warrant a position in the bracket you've requested). And if their response to a tournament director, in that situation, is to call his opinion (one that may even be given on a devil's advocate basis) a "joke", they are likely to find very vew sympathetic ears to their cause.

Laimport wrote:Why is that so hard for you to understand? Or, are you part of the Texans group? As a parent or coach?

If you are then your credibility in this matter is compromised.

What's hard to understand is why you can't enter into a civil discourse with someone that disagrees with your position.

I've clearly stated that I'd like to see you get a chance. I've since stated that barring that chance, you deserve a refund.

That said, I can very easily make a case that you don't deserve a position in the qualifying bracket which you are more than free to disagree with.

I've also clearly stated that I don't have a clue what criteria the tournament director used to set the brackets, and quite franly, neither do you. And I'm not sure a case can be reasonably made that either of us even deserve to know.

And for the record, it should be clear from my posts on this forum that I'm not affiliated with the Texans in any way. Neither of my son's, nor my daughter now or have ever played for a Texans team, a team that eventually became a Texans team, a team that was formerly a Texans team, or anyone that is now or has ever coached for the Texans. Not that I have anything against the organization.

All that said, resorting to insinuations of bias is exactly what I'd expect of you based on your body of posts. You've demonstrated complete inability to converse with someone who disagrees with you without resorting to insults, name calling, etc. recently. And believe me, insinuating that I'm somehow a "homer" for the Texans is exactly that. I also find it offensive, irrespective of your attempt to state that you did not mean to offend with your last post calling my opinion a "joke".

Guess if you can't intelligently take apart an argument, you have to resort to other means to discredit those that put forth opinions you disagree with.

News flash, it's possible for two people to agree to disagree. Doesn't make either right or wrong as we are talking about opinions.

Again, I'd love to see you guys play in either bracket. Barring that, a refund would seem to be in order.

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:Why is that so hard for you to understand? Or, are you part of the Texans group? As a parent or coach?

If you are then your credibility in this matter is compromised.

What's hard to understand is why you can't enter into a civil discourse with someone that disagrees with your position.

I've clearly stated that I'd like to see you get a chance. I've since stated that barring that chance, you deserve a refund.

That said, I can very easily make a case that you don't deserve a position in the qualifying bracket which you are more than free to disagree with.

I've also clearly stated that I don't have a clue what criteria the tournament director used to set the brackets, and quite franly, neither do you. And I'm not sure a case can be reasonably made that either of us even deserve to know.

And for the record, it should be clear from my posts on this forum that I'm not affiliated with the Texans in any way. Neither of my son's, nor my daughter now or have ever played for a Texans team, a team that eventually became a Texans team, a team that was formerly a Texans team, or anyone that is now or has ever coached for the Texans. Not that I have anything against the organization.

All that said, resorting to insinuations of bias is exactly what I'd expect of you based on your body of posts. You've demonstrated complete inability to converse with someone who disagrees with you without resorting to insults, name calling, etc. recently. And believe me, insinuating that I'm somehow a "homer" for the Texans is exactly that. I also find it offensive, irrespective of your attempt to state that you did not mean to offend with your last post calling my opinion a "joke".

Guess if you can't intelligently take apart an argument, you have to resort to other means to discredit those that put forth opinions you disagree with.

News flash, it's possible for two people to agree to disagree. Doesn't make either right or wrong as we are talking about opinions.

Again, I'd love to see you guys play in either bracket. Barring that, a refund would seem to be in order.

Did you not read my last post. I specifically pointed out that your argument was NOT a joke!

Let me repeat, I was not implying that your argument/analogy was a JOKE!

Are we clear on that? Good. Moving on..

I don't know where I personally attacked you. You are drawing your own conclusion in that regard.

I've 'personally insulted' one poster on this forum. if I personally attacked anyone, it would be bigswoosh. (And I was provoked.)

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand someone else's position oropinions besides your own.

I even gave some credence to your argument that we shouldn't be in the qualifying bracket. Emphasis on 'some'.

Go and look at the accepted U16 boys list. Then come back and explain why we aren't at least in the top 16 of 22 teams that have been accepted. Compare their rankings and head to head results...and then make your case.

But don't sit here and try to discredit me based on your own personal dislike of me.Come up with some facts...futbolfiend has.

So, again, for the 100th time, if Texans doesn't think we belong..they are perfectly within their right. Even though I vehemently disagree.

But, if they have not delivered the product they promised us, at LEAST refund us so we can make other arrangements.

Can you at least concede that?

Are we there yet?

club meet dead horse. Dead horse, meet club. Shuffle up and deal! The kids just want to play...

finish1 wrote:club meet dead horse. Dead horse, meet club. Shuffle up and deal! The kids just want to play...

Thank you for that, first time I've smiled since election night.

The part about the kids I don't know, they are pretty whipped up.

At the end of the day, the big club with the big money will squash dissent. I don't have much hope NTX soccer would intercede on our behalf

Sometimes life serves us Sh*t sandwiches, it is looking more and more likely we will be drug over there to take a big bite.

Well, as of now it looks like we will be playing white bracket.

Not happy about it. But it is what it is.

I think there's a whopping 500 points available for white bracket. (Unless I misunderstood.)

If nothing else this is a setback for the team.

After the election though, nothing surprises me anymore...

futbolfiend wrote:

finish1 wrote:club meet dead horse. Dead horse, meet club. Shuffle up and deal! The kids just want to play...

Thank you for that, first time I've smiled since election night.

The part about the kids I don't know, they are pretty whipped up.

At the end of the day, the big club with the big money will squash dissent. I don't have much hope NTX soccer would intercede on our behalf

Sometimes life serves us Sh*t sandwiches, it is looking more and more likely we will be drug over there to take a big bite.

The kids will definately be disappointed if they can't play for a spot in the DC, but you can get something good out of this situation. You can come to the tournament with an US vs. THEM mentality with the intention of mopping up the field with the lesser teams in the White Bracket. Show no mercy and run up the score without remorse. If you can put up a couple 10-0 or 12-0 wins, you could do more to build your teams reputation as a real contender. Then play the Bobby Rhine and win that DC spot. Not the ideal, but you could still get to the DC and make a point in doing it.

Gatorz wrote:

futbolfiend wrote:

finish1 wrote:club meet dead horse. Dead horse, meet club. Shuffle up and deal! The kids just want to play...

Thank you for that, first time I've smiled since election night.

The part about the kids I don't know, they are pretty whipped up.

At the end of the day, the big club with the big money will squash dissent. I don't have much hope NTX soccer would intercede on our behalf

Sometimes life serves us Sh*t sandwiches, it is looking more and more likely we will be drug over there to take a big bite.

The kids will definately be disappointed if they can't play for a spot in the DC, but you can get something good out of this situation. You can come to the tournament with an US vs. THEM mentality with the intention of mopping up the field with the lesser teams in the White Bracket. Show no mercy and run up the score without remorse. If you can put up a couple 10-0 or 12-0 wins, you could do more to build your teams reputation as a real contender. Then play the Bobby Rhine and win that DC spot. Not the ideal, but you could still get to the DC and make a point in doing it.

in theory you make perfect sense, hard to be an armchair psychologist and get 15/16 year old boys on their A game. Let me be clear, I am in no way denigrating the 17-22 teams (apparently including us) that are playing in the "reserve" league weekend after next. we will be there because we have to be (at least for now) I'm not sure who it will be, I recognize some decent teams in that group and its entirely possible we aren't so much better that we can hang 6 or 8 on a competitive D2 or D3 team--or Arlington or Plano for that matter. its a tough pickle to be in.

As far as Bobby Rhine we are up against High School rules in LA that would force some of our boys to sit their HS games until after Bobby Rhine, Its not an issue for DT Fall Festival as HS is just now getting underway over here. For us we circled this date on the Calendar back in August--it has not worked out as we planned (or felt we deserved) I wish we had never even signed up. It was always going to be an uphill road against top echelon D1 and PA teams but those 3 games (win or lose) I felt would have cemented our reputation as a quality side deserving of top bracket or Gold status without having to beg tournament directors.

Here's the likely white bracket.

1. ETP (as of now)
2. Arsenal (promoted to D3)
3. DT Red South ((relegated to D3)
4. DT Wht FW (no real history/no league)
5. Waco Blast (formerly a 96 Arlington PL team)
6. HUASCA (no history)
7. TBA? (Alabama team w/no history/rankings)

Of the 5 presumed NTX teams..their respective NTX rankings are as follows:

1. ETP 7th
2. DT Red South 44th
3. Arsenal 23rd
4. DT Wht FW 60th
5. Waco 39th

And then there are 2 teams with no history at all.

Regional rankings are understandably less accurate. Unless you are in one of the subregional premier leagues.

NTX rankings I would think would be somewhat more accurate.

Food for thought.

I have a question Laim (or is it Lame?) jk
Which of the 16 teams that you believe are in the big boy bracket should be kicked out so you can get in?

D1 - DTR, DTR FTW, Andro Red, FCD Central, FCD Blue, FCD Gold, Rayados, TFC Royal

PA - DT U15, FCD, Solar Chelsea U15

D2 - TFC Blue, Alliance United, Dallas Tigres, DT Red West, Barcelona


Also, why did your team duck Plano Labor Day?

In a previous post I mentioned San Diego for Thanksgiving and you said no way (fair enough) but my point on that one was if not SD then sign up for Bobby Rhine which you apparently still have not done yet.
Why?

And lastly, you beat Solar Red in a tourney (and keep forgetting to say that a Arlington team, TX Lightning you could NOT beat) but then you completely DISMISS the classic league results of Solar Red where everyone here in D1 has handled them fairly easily (10 losses and 2 draws)
They have scored 12 and given up 35
And they are still #3 in Got Soccer
According to your rationale, shouldn't they be in MLS then with that RANKING?

mspan02 wrote:I have a question Laim (or is it Lame?) jk
Which of the 16 teams that you believe are in the big boy bracket should be kicked out so you can get in?

D1 - DTR, DTR FTW, Andro Red, FCD Central, FCD Blue, FCD Gold, Rayados, TFC Royal

PA - DT U15, FCD, Solar Chelsea U15

D2 - TFC Blue, Alliance United, Dallas Tigres, DT Red West, Barcelona


Also, why did your team duck Plano Labor Day?

In a previous post I mentioned San Diego for Thanksgiving and you said no way (fair enough) but my point on that one was if not SD then sign up for Bobby Rhine which you apparently still have not done yet.
Why?

And lastly, you beat Solar Red in a tourney (and keep forgetting to say that a Arlington team, TX Lightning you could NOT beat) but then you completely DISMISS the classic league results of Solar Red where everyone here in D1 has handled them fairly easily (10 losses and 2 draws)
They have scored 12 and given up 35
And they are still #3 in Got Soccer
According to your rationale, shouldn't they be in MLS then with that RANKING?

Glad you asked. TFC blue would be the obvious choice. Since we beat them at ASC semi's.

Laimport wrote:Here's the likely white bracket.

1. ETP (as of now)
2. Arsenal (promoted to D3)
3. DT Red South ((relegated to D3)
4. DT Wht FW (no real history/no league)
5. Waco Blast (formerly a 96 Arlington PL team)
6. HUASCA (no history)
7. TBA? (Alabama team w/no history/rankings)

Of the 5 presumed NTX teams..their respective NTX rankings are as follows:

1. ETP 7th
2. DT Red South 44th
3. Arsenal 23rd
4. DT Wht FW 60th
5. Waco 39th

And then there are 2 teams with no history at all.

Regional rankings are understandably less accurate. Unless you are in one of the subregional premier leagues.

NTX rankings I would think would be somewhat more accurate.

Food for thought.

DTxn 97B White FTW plays in Boys Under 16 Plano Premier. Unfortunately PPL is not using GS but they have a history of playing.

mspan02 wrote:I have a question Laim (or is it Lame?) jk
Which of the 16 teams that you believe are in the big boy bracket should be kicked out so you can get in?

D1 - DTR, DTR FTW, Andro Red, FCD Central, FCD Blue, FCD Gold, Rayados, TFC Royal

PA - DT U15, FCD, Solar Chelsea U15

D2 - TFC Blue, Alliance United, Dallas Tigres, DT Red West, Barcelona


Also, why did your team duck Plano Labor Day?

In a previous post I mentioned San Diego for Thanksgiving and you said no way (fair enough) but my point on that one was if not SD then sign up for Bobby Rhine which you apparently still have not done yet.
Why?

And lastly, you beat Solar Red in a tourney (and keep forgetting to say that a Arlington team, TX Lightning you could NOT beat) but then you completely DISMISS the classic league results of Solar Red where everyone here in D1 has handled them fairly easily (10 losses and 2 draws)
They have scored 12 and given up 35
And they are still #3 in Got Soccer
According to your rationale, shouldn't they be in MLS then with that RANKING?

Also, I would say FCD gold, barcelona and Alliance.

We didn't 'duck' PLD either. We played ASC instead...which I believe was a week earlier? TX Lightning we were missing 3 starters...or maybe more than that. Have to check.

CSPAN, if you are going to question, at least try to be serious about it.

mspan02 wrote:Which of the 16 teams that you believe are in the big boy bracket should be kicked out so you can get in?

This is the part that I don't get. Why should any team that registered for this tournament be excluded from the so-called "big boy bracket"? Why can't all the teams that registered get an equal shot? If the tournament was capped at 16 available spots then they should have stopped accepting applications at #16.

The Bobby Rhine explanation is simple. You'd have to ask the coach though. We knoew TFF was an automatic DC qualifier. Maybe we didn't know whether BR was/is...so I'm not sure.

In hindsight, we probably should have played PLD. As it looks the field was stronger.

Based on our budget, we play one tournament per month. You have to remember, we aren't based in the metroplex. And it costs money to travel as you surely already know.

Or maybe travel to you is Plano to Richland?

Why we don't play this tournament or that isn't up to me. I can only relay information that I was told.

Now, if it were up to me...then we would play any and every tournament that offered both highest level and some varied competition.

Laimport wrote:The Bobby Rhine explanation is simple. You'd have to ask the coach though. We knoew TFF was an automatic DC qualifier. Maybe we didn't know whether BR was/is...so I'm not sure.

In hindsight, we probably should have played PLD. As it looks the field was stronger.

Based on our budget, we play one tournament per month. You have to remember, we aren't based in the metroplex. And it costs money to travel as you surely already know.

Or maybe travel to you is Plano to Richland?

Why we don't play this tournament or that isn't up to me. I can only relay information that I was told.

Now, if it were up to me...then we would play any and every tournament that offered both highest level and some varied competition.

I understand DC is one of, if not the, largest and most prestigous youth tournament in the soccer world. But, due to your teams geographic location and other factors, it may not be in the cards. It sounds like the one way to ensure you get in to the best bracket is to play CL. You cannot do that because of distance. Another way is to be on a PA or DA team. Again, your players cannot do that because of distance. There simply may not be a way for your team to get in, short of winning a state title. I think you should have been told this upfront, but it may just be the case.

If you can't play Bobby Rhine, you may have to look towards other tournament and leav the DC in the rear view mirror.

I know a lot of dads that grew up playing in the Dallas area and very few of them ever played in the DC. (many of them went on to play college soccer)

It is not the end of the world of you don't get in.

Travel is 2+ hours one way (minimum)
And I live no where near plano myself
think dfw airport area

I believe BR was announced as an automatic qualifier a long time ago

So, your better than FCD Gold?
You obviously haven't seen them lately
I think they may have the single best player in D1 right now who joined there team after about 6 games in maybe
Look and see when they started scoring and that is when he started playing

Barca and Alliance are both D2 worthy clubs (and I accidently put them in that category, I know they are both d3)

And your white bracket had DT Red South who came back up to D2 due to Irving Elite disappearing and subsequent fallout and Andro Gold not making so d2 spot re-opened
Think they are 4th right now so I am sure they will get a spot

So I could see them dropping alliance and putting dtr south since dtrs is a texans team

so 8 d1's, 3 pa's, 4 d2's and a d3 (if not the illinois or alabama team)

Laimport wrote:

mspan02 wrote:I have a question Laim (or is it Lame?) jk
Which of the 16 teams that you believe are in the big boy bracket should be kicked out so you can get in?

D1 - DTR, DTR FTW, Andro Red, FCD Central, FCD Blue, FCD Gold, Rayados, TFC Royal

PA - DT U15, FCD, Solar Chelsea U15

D2 - TFC Blue, Alliance United, Dallas Tigres, DT Red West, Barcelona


Also, why did your team duck Plano Labor Day?

In a previous post I mentioned San Diego for Thanksgiving and you said no way (fair enough) but my point on that one was if not SD then sign up for Bobby Rhine which you apparently still have not done yet.
Why?

And lastly, you beat Solar Red in a tourney (and keep forgetting to say that a Arlington team, TX Lightning you could NOT beat) but then you completely DISMISS the classic league results of Solar Red where everyone here in D1 has handled them fairly easily (10 losses and 2 draws)
They have scored 12 and given up 35
And they are still #3 in Got Soccer
According to your rationale, shouldn't they be in MLS then with that RANKING?

Also, I would say FCD gold, barcelona and Alliance.

We didn't 'duck' PLD either. We played ASC instead...which I believe was a week earlier? TX Lightning we were missing 3 starters...or maybe more than that. Have to check.

CSPAN, if you are going to question, at least try to be serious about it.

OK....that's it, you've gone too far now. FCD Gold?
Why in the hell would you boot us? Because we haven't traveled the East looking for tournaments with high points and weak competition? You guys have faired better than us in a couple of tournaments but we beat ya'll 4 to 1 at the Flamefest in June and in case you've missed it we've been playing the "big boys" every week. (3rd place currently in D1 Classic (just ignore the fact that we are 5 points from 8th place)
I think you should get to play for the spot but to say you should be in over us is LAIM.