New Substitution Rule U15 +

The process will be the coaches are to have cards for the players that will be handed to AR1 (the AR that is on the side of the coaches) and will be kept till half time, if the player doesn't have a card they can not enter the game. At half time the cards will be returned to coach.

It is up to the referee to make sure that a player does not re-enter the game in the same half. The only exception is if the keeper gets hurt and must come off the field a keeper can be subbed for him that doesn't count against the 7 subs (or number of players) for the half. If the injured keeper re-enters the game they must do so as the keeper of it will be considered a sub.

Make sense?

scref wrote:The process will be the coaches are to have cards for the players that will be handed to AR1 (the AR that is on the side of the coaches) and will be kept till half time, if the player doesn't have a card they can not enter the game. At half time the cards will be returned to coach.

It is up to the referee to make sure that a player does not re-enter the game in the same half. The only exception is if the keeper gets hurt and must come off the field a keeper can be subbed for him that doesn't count against the 7 subs (or number of players) for the half. If the injured keeper re-enters the game they must do so as the keeper of it will be considered a sub.

Make sense?

Does, but:
a) so many ways around this not funny
b) it's a game - let the kids play
Still didn't answer the question - as obvious as it will be to circumvent this rule, what will the refs do if they find a player has reentered the game?

RedBaron wrote:

scref wrote:The process will be the coaches are to have cards for the players that will be handed to AR1 (the AR that is on the side of the coaches) and will be kept till half time, if the player doesn't have a card they can not enter the game. At half time the cards will be returned to coach.

It is up to the referee to make sure that a player does not re-enter the game in the same half. The only exception is if the keeper gets hurt and must come off the field a keeper can be subbed for him that doesn't count against the 7 subs (or number of players) for the half. If the injured keeper re-enters the game they must do so as the keeper of it will be considered a sub.

Make sense?

Does, but:
a) so many ways around this not funny
b) it's a game - let the kids play
Still didn't answer the question - as obvious as it will be to circumvent this rule, what will the refs do if they find a player has reentered the game?

RED CARD?

RedBaron wrote:Does, but:
a) so many ways around this not funny
b) it's a game - let the kids play
Still didn't answer the question - as obvious as it will be to circumvent this rule, what will the refs do if they find a player has reentered the game?

a) Name three (that would actually work).
b) Every kid can still play. So what's your point?

And yeah, absolutely a red card.

swindler wrote:

RedBaron wrote:Does, but:
a) so many ways around this not funny
b) it's a game - let the kids play
Still didn't answer the question - as obvious as it will be to circumvent this rule, what will the refs do if they find a player has reentered the game?

a) Name three (that would actually work).
b) Every kid can still play. So what's your point?

For as long as there have been rules there are people who try to circumvent. The question is what is the penalty? If the parking fine is $15 and it costs you $25 to park in the lot across the street, why not take the ticket? One of the points being, they ushered this rule into place without thinking it through and to what point? What is the real advantage of this rule - from the kids perspective - not the coaches, not North Texas Soccer? We've heard it is in place to prepare the kids for playing at a higher level. Really?

If a kid is being platooned today, is there really a chance for this kid to play at a higher level? Maybe he/she does need conditioning. Being pulled and not allowed to return does not correct this. We've heard there are too many substitutions in some games. Since the substitution is at the discretion of the ref, have the refs monitor the swapping of players. If it gets out of hand, then stop or slow down the substitutions. Besides, at the higher level, don't they add time at the end of the half and game to compensate for stoppage of play? When was the last time you were at a game (tournament or Classic) where they added time due to substitutions or injury? The only time I've seen this is due to a) an broken leg requiring an ambulance or b) lightning.

This is a GAME for the KIDS to play. Maybe, just maybe there will be ONE kid from each age group who will play professionally and earn a decent living. Why have a rule that reports to help ONE at the expense of 540. In the event a team is moving on to play at Nationals, the coach could easily practice by not substituting or allowing kids to reenter a game. And easy enough for the coach to explain this to the kids and parents. Again, why a rule that helps 2 teams out of the 30 per age group?

Teams at this age group tend to carry a full roster of 18. For the studs on the team, no worries, they will get their playing time. Maybe, just maybe, they lost 10 minutes last year, so a bench player could get some playing time. Players 6-11 benefit with more playing time as the coach will likely keep them in longer. Players 12-18 will see less playing time. Maybe this motivates them to work harder for playing time - seriously doubt it. More likely, this will turn them off from the sport - meaning they will quit. Number 1 unwritten rule - they have to have fun. If they no longer enjoy the game there will be no higher level.

From a parents perspective, why in the hell would I pay a coach/club dollars for my kid to practice, but not play in a sport?

From a parents perspective, why in the hell would I pay a coach/club dollars for my kid to practice, but not play in a sport?[/quote]


Exactly! But then why not move him to another team at a lower level of competition where he can play the majority of the game? Bottom three players on an 18 player roster might be better suited to drop a division of play and get that valuable game experience.
Some parents will argue that their son develops better by training with a higher division team. As you noted- not many kids from Classic are going pro. Many are going to play in college. However, if a player is not starting on a DI team, the chances he is going to get a scholarship to play somewhere are pretty low. Why not let him enjoy the game more on a team where he can play a lot. The small difference in intensity/quality of training partners will not matter much in the long run.

RedBaron wrote:

swindler wrote:

RedBaron wrote:Does, but:
a) so many ways around this not funny
b) it's a game - let the kids play
Still didn't answer the question - as obvious as it will be to circumvent this rule, what will the refs do if they find a player has reentered the game?

a) Name three (that would actually work).
b) Every kid can still play. So what's your point?

For as long as there have been rules there are people who try to circumvent. The question is what is the penalty? If the parking fine is $15 and it costs you $25 to park in the lot across the street, why not take the ticket? One of the points being, they ushered this rule into place without thinking it through and to what point? What is the real advantage of this rule - from the kids perspective - not the coaches, not North Texas Soccer? We've heard it is in place to prepare the kids for playing at a higher level. Really?

If a kid is being platooned today, is there really a chance for this kid to play at a higher level? Maybe he/she does need conditioning. Being pulled and not allowed to return does not correct this. We've heard there are too many substitutions in some games. Since the substitution is at the discretion of the ref, have the refs monitor the swapping of players. If it gets out of hand, then stop or slow down the substitutions. Besides, at the higher level, don't they add time at the end of the half and game to compensate for stoppage of play? When was the last time you were at a game (tournament or Classic) where they added time due to substitutions or injury? The only time I've seen this is due to a) an broken leg requiring an ambulance or b) lightning.

This is a GAME for the KIDS to play. Maybe, just maybe there will be ONE kid from each age group who will play professionally and earn a decent living. Why have a rule that reports to help ONE at the expense of 540. In the event a team is moving on to play at Nationals, the coach could easily practice by not substituting or allowing kids to reenter a game. And easy enough for the coach to explain this to the kids and parents. Again, why a rule that helps 2 teams out of the 30 per age group?

Teams at this age group tend to carry a full roster of 18. For the studs on the team, no worries, they will get their playing time. Maybe, just maybe, they lost 10 minutes last year, so a bench player could get some playing time. Players 6-11 benefit with more playing time as the coach will likely keep them in longer. Players 12-18 will see less playing time. Maybe this motivates them to work harder for playing time - seriously doubt it. More likely, this will turn them off from the sport - meaning they will quit. Number 1 unwritten rule - they have to have fun. If they no longer enjoy the game there will be no higher level.

From a parents perspective, why in the hell would I pay a coach/club dollars for my kid to practice, but not play in a sport?

1) You never gave even one way...much less three.
2) I add time in almost EVERY game I ref....and so does virtually every other ref I have worked with. Maybe your watch is broken

Hi SCREF,

When do the coaches get the player cards to hand to you during the game? Will we be getting those tonight at our managers meeting?

Goal4Momma wrote:Hi SCREF,

When do the coaches get the player cards to hand to you during the game? Will we be getting those tonight at our managers meeting?

Teams will provide their own cards. No cards...no play!

Ok... so since this is the first I am hearing about needing cards.... and our first game is saturday, where do I get them? do we use the travel cards? I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, I am really wanting to know so I can be ready.... I hope no one takes it that way.

happyfeet wrote:

Goal4Momma wrote:Hi SCREF,

When do the coaches get the player cards to hand to you during the game? Will we be getting those tonight at our managers meeting?

Teams will provide their own cards. No cards...no play!

Yet one more rule that benefits the kids!

Goal4Momma wrote:Ok... so since this is the first I am hearing about needing cards.... and our first game is saturday, where do I get them? do we use the travel cards? I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, I am really wanting to know so I can be ready.... I hope no one takes it that way.

Just go out and get 3x5 index cards. That is the easiest way. One side for the 1st half and one side for the 2nd.
As for poor little RedBaron...you'll just need to suck it up.

Thanks Happy Feet... So they don't need to be more formalized? what will you need on the cards? Name and Jersey #? Do you want the last name listed first or first name first? or jersey # first? What is easiest for the refs?

I better get cracking on making cards.....

Goal4Momma wrote:Ok... so since this is the first I am hearing about needing cards.... and our first game is saturday, where do I get them? do we use the travel cards? I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, I am really wanting to know so I can be ready.... I hope no one takes it that way.

Goal4Momma:
See below for information that the U17 commissioner sent:
IMPORTANT ACTION: Substitution procedures take affect IMMEDIATELY
With this new rule coming into effect staring this season, substitutes for ages U-15 and above will be limited to 7 substitutes per half---no re-entry by a player. This rule was voted on and accepted by the coaches.
1. Each team will have "Substitute Cards" at each and every game. The card can be be a 4" x 6" Index Card---laminated or not. The team name will be written on the card.
2. When the team wants to make a sub, the coach will hand the player a card which will indicate the number of the player entering as a sub and also the number of the player leaving the field. The player will then hand the card to the assistant referee or the referee, depending on who is controlling the substitution at that time.
3. This practice will be done in each half.
4. At the end of the first half the assistant referee or the referee will hand the cards back to the coaches. This will also be done at the end of the game.
5. It is the responsibility of each and every team to bring substitute cards---NO CARDS NO SUBS.
6. If you forget to have these cards available, the office will maintain a supply of 4" x 6" Index Cards for PURCHASE at $1.00 per card! We want you to remember to bring these cards. Using the back of a roster or torn up scraps of paper will not be accepted. This is on you and your coach to remember.
The substitution rule and procedures will be reviewed at the Manager's meeting next week.

Thank you so much for sharing DreamBig... I do have a question.... will the cards be blank and the coach has to fill them out before he subs? I guess I'm not understanding how this will work based on the instructions above... Maybe they will paint a clear picture for me tonight at the meeting.
Like I said, I just want to be sure I have what we need and there are no hiccups!

Goal4Momma wrote:Thank you so much for sharing DreamBig... I do have a question.... will the cards be blank and the coach has to fill them out before he subs? I guess I'm not understanding how this will work based on the instructions above... Maybe they will paint a clear picture for me tonight at the meeting.
Like I said, I just want to be sure I have what we need and there are no hiccups!

Yes, they will be blank. When the coach decides he/she wants to sub, they will write the information on the card and give it to the entering player who will hand it to the Ref/AR...who will hold onto it until halftime.

Thanks so much! I appreciate it! I'll get some cards and write our team name on them Front and Back. Then I'll tell the coach what he needs to do...... I'll make sure he has a pen too.
Happy feet, since this is the first time to do this, do you think it will slow down the game just a tiny bit? I know earlier, someone said it won't.. but I have to think that there will be some growing pains/learning before its a "smooth" process.

Goal4Momma wrote:Thanks so much! I appreciate it! I'll get some cards and write our team name on them Front and Back. Then I'll tell the coach what he needs to do...... I'll make sure he has a pen too.
Happy feet, since this is the first time to do this, do you think it will slow down the game just a tiny bit? I know earlier, someone said it won't.. but I have to think that there will be some growing pains/learning before its a "smooth" process.

I really don't think so. Let's face it, all the ref or AR has to do when a sub comes in is to check to make sure that the entering player's # is not the same as an exiting player's # on any of the other cards he is holding. Not rocket science!

happyfeet wrote:
I really don't think so. Let's face it, all the ref or AR has to do when a sub comes in is to check to make sure that the entering player's # is not the same as an exiting player's # on any of the other cards he is holding. Not rocket science!

Let the kids PLAY.

I'm sure you are right.... I guess its just the consistancy part I'm thinking about.. I'm sure there will be a healthy debate come Monday morning! tee hee!

Can we reuse the card each week until its full.. by that I mean scratch out or do we need fresh cards at every game..... What is better for the refs?

happyfeet wrote:
I really don't think so. Let's face it, all the ref or AR has to do when a sub comes in is to check to make sure that the entering player's # is not the same as an exiting player's # on any of the other cards he is holding. Not rocket science!

Coaches required to do paperwork...yeah...this rule will last. I predict coaches will begin pushing for the 4th official after a couple years.

RedBaron wrote:

happyfeet wrote:
I really don't think so. Let's face it, all the ref or AR has to do when a sub comes in is to check to make sure that the entering player's # is not the same as an exiting player's # on any of the other cards he is holding. Not rocket science!

Let the kids PLAY.

Maybe you mean "let my kid play".
If your coach is subbing more than 7 players in EACH half, he's not coaching effectively. There's no better way to slow down the flow of the game than to sub every 6 minutes.

Goal4Momma wrote:I'm sure you are right.... I guess its just the consistancy part I'm thinking about.. I'm sure there will be a healthy debate come Monday morning! tee hee!

Can we reuse the card each week until its full.. by that I mean scratch out or do we need fresh cards at every game..... What is better for the refs?

Use a clean card

happyfeet wrote:
Maybe you mean "let my kid play".
If your coach is subbing more than 7 players in EACH half, he's not coaching effectively. There's no better way to slow down the flow of the game than to sub every 6 minutes.

What difference does it make if he wants his kid to play. Sports are meant to be played and not to sit on the bench, attend practice, or reduced due to silly rule.

happyfeet wrote:

Goal4Momma wrote:I'm sure you are right.... I guess its just the consistancy part I'm thinking about.. I'm sure there will be a healthy debate come Monday morning! tee hee!

Can we reuse the card each week until its full.. by that I mean scratch out or do we need fresh cards at every game..... What is better for the refs?

Use a clean card

Got it thanks so much for walking me thru the process! I appreciate it!

soccerrus2 wrote:

happyfeet wrote:
Maybe you mean "let my kid play".
If your coach is subbing more than 7 players in EACH half, he's not coaching effectively. There's no better way to slow down the flow of the game than to sub every 6 minutes.

What difference does it make if he wants his kid to play. Sports are meant to be played and not to sit on the bench, attend practice, or reduced due to silly rule.

If equal playing time is your goal, then rec soccer is the place to be. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just different priorities. If your kid is number 20 on a 21 roster, they would be better off playing in a lower division...if game time is your number one priority.