New Substitution Rule U15 +

soccerrus2 wrote:

happyfeet wrote:
Maybe you mean "let my kid play".
If your coach is subbing more than 7 players in EACH half, he's not coaching effectively. There's no better way to slow down the flow of the game than to sub every 6 minutes.

What difference does it make if he wants his kid to play. Sports are meant to be played and not to sit on the bench, attend practice, or reduced due to silly rule.

If equal playing time is your goal, then rec soccer is the place to be. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just different priorities. If your kid is number 20 on a 21 roster, they would be better off playing in a lower division...if game time is your number one priority.

happyfeet wrote:

RedBaron wrote:

happyfeet wrote:
I really don't think so. Let's face it, all the ref or AR has to do when a sub comes in is to check to make sure that the entering player's # is not the same as an exiting player's # on any of the other cards he is holding. Not rocket science!

Let the kids PLAY.

Maybe you mean "let my kid play".
If your coach is subbing more than 7 players in EACH half, he's not coaching effectively. There's no better way to slow down the flow of the game than to sub every 6 minutes.

My kid is playing. In fact, he is in the group that will benefit the most from this new rule.

I do mean let the KIDS play - all of them!

dreambig wrote:See below for information that the U17 commissioner sent:
IMPORTANT ACTION: Substitution procedures take affect IMMEDIATELY
With this new rule coming into effect staring this season, substitutes for ages U-15 and above will be limited to 7 substitutes per half---no re-entry by a player. This rule was voted on and accepted by the coaches.
1. Each team will have "Substitute Cards" at each and every game. The card can be be a 4" x 6" Index Card---laminated or not. The team name will be written on the card.
2. When the team wants to make a sub, the coach will hand the player a card which will indicate the number of the player entering as a sub and also the number of the player leaving the field. The player will then hand the card to the assistant referee or the referee, depending on who is controlling the substitution at that time.
3. This practice will be done in each half.
4. At the end of the first half the assistant referee or the referee will hand the cards back to the coaches. This will also be done at the end of the game.
5. It is the responsibility of each and every team to bring substitute cards---NO CARDS NO SUBS.
6. If you forget to have these cards available, the office will maintain a supply of 4" x 6" Index Cards for PURCHASE at $1.00 per card! We want you to remember to bring these cards. Using the back of a roster or torn up scraps of paper will not be accepted. This is on you and your coach to remember.
The substitution rule and procedures will be reviewed at the Manager's meeting next week.

Frankly it might just be easier to do what most other leagues that use this rule do and use player cards. Easier to implement and not easy to cheat when there is a picture ID available.

Again...I think this rule will drive kids away that normally would stick with club teams through high school.

happyfeet wrote:If equal playing time is your goal, then rec soccer is the place to be. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just different priorities. If your kid is number 20 on a 21 roster, they would be better off playing in a lower division...if game time is your number one priority.

What a cop out for a reply.

Analyze for a second what is going to happen. Coach needs to fill roster. Tell kids and parents - you'll play. Season starts, kid rides bench. Kid unhappy. Parent unhappy. Parent makes Coach unhappy. No different than it works today; other than the bench gets less playing time, thus expediting the process.

Let the kids PLAY!

Red-

I don't disagree as much with what you say as the magnitude to which you say it. I think this is a dangerous rule that could have unintended consequences, but if everyone involved executes it properly, it should have little (if any) negative impact. So I think the alarms going off are a little at the "sky is falling" level. We should wait and see how well it is handled.

Is this the right rule at the right time? I'm not sure on that one. Substitutions clearly get out-of-hand in many situations, so I would like to see something done. The refs have always had the authority to limit substitutions, but I would guess that 3 out of 4 will grant any number of substitutions at any time. Putting it in their hands to limit subs will result in uneven execution, and some just won't do it.

Does the new rule cause more problems in coordinating playing time? Sure. The coach will now have to think ahead more about who he wants to play, and when. But if he is intent on playing kids a certain amount of time, he can still do that. He just needs to plan ahead more. Scheduling subs at the end of a half. Or rotating one sub for another sub. Or rotating the position of players on the field to make room for subs. In fact, you could argue that in some situations players 1-11 will get less playing time because if they're pulled from the field (for whatever reason) they won't be able to re-enter that half. But it is still up to the coach. And he still has enough freedom to choose how much each kid plays.

Will some kids suffer from playing time? Yeah, I think so. Just like Wade Phillips will have the Cowboys kick a field goal with 3 seconds left in the half and two timeouts still in his pocket, some coaches will do a poor job of planning their players time. But the new rule doesn't say that this has to happen. Coaches that rely on situational substitutions may have more trouble adapting. Coaches that rotate whole platoons to keep kids fresh will have to plan to have kids on the field for longer stretches, which may mean better conditioning.

I expect there to be some poorly distributed playing time early on, and some hurt feelings on the bench, but if playing time doesn't become more equitable over time, then the criticism will still need to go to the coach - not the new rule.

RedBaron wrote:

happyfeet wrote:If equal playing time is your goal, then rec soccer is the place to be. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just different priorities. If your kid is number 20 on a 21 roster, they would be better off playing in a lower division...if game time is your number one priority.

What a cop out for a reply.

Analyze for a second what is going to happen. Coach needs to fill roster. Tell kids and parents - you'll play. Season starts, kid rides bench. Kid unhappy. Parent unhappy. Parent makes Coach unhappy. No different than it works today; other than the bench gets less playing time, thus expediting the process.

Let the kids PLAY!

Awesome! You just made a great argument for the new rule...it expedites the process that is inevitable. Thank you.

As with any change, people can be leary and will try to look at it from all angles. Until it goes into play and I can see for myself how it impacts the boys, I'll wait to comment.

Change is never easy no matter what the rule or situation is... You will always have some who love it and others who hate it..... All have the rights to their opinions.... I'm hoping for the best and expecting the best.... Anyone want to borrow my rose colored glasses? tee hee.....

Goal4Momma wrote:As with any change, people can be leary and will try to look at it from all angles. Until it goes into play and I can see for myself how it impacts the boys, I'll wait to comment.

Change is never easy no matter what the rule or situation is... You will always have some who love it and others who hate it..... All have the rights to their opinions.... I'm hoping for the best and expecting the best.... Anyone want to borrow my rose colored glasses? tee hee.....

I agree with Swindler in one very important aspect...it is on the coaches' back to manage this effectively. They voted for it...they will have to live with its success or failure.

happyfeet wrote:
Awesome! You just made a great argument for the new rule...it expedites the process that is inevitable. Thank you.

You are a true Ambassador for the love of the game.

soccerrus2 wrote:

happyfeet wrote:
Awesome! You just made a great argument for the new rule...it expedites the process that is inevitable. Thank you.

You are a true Ambassador for the love of the game.

Thank you for capitalizing Ambassador.

Goal4Momma wrote:As with any change, people can be leary and will try to look at it from all angles. Until it goes into play and I can see for myself how it impacts the boys, I'll wait to comment.

Change is never easy no matter what the rule or situation is... You will always have some who love it and others who hate it..... All have the rights to their opinions.... I'm hoping for the best and expecting the best.... Anyone want to borrow my rose colored glasses? tee hee.....

I'll take the glasses. This didn't seem like too big of a deal to me. I am hopeful that the new rule will help speed up the game against some teams which seemed to substitute excessively. I understand the concerns about injuries and kids whose inability to play long stints is due to growing pains or coming off of an injury. I also think this will be tough for teams who have smaller rosters since they won't be able to rotate as many players. But, I am sure the coaches can manage.
The cards though--really??? A player card would be so much easier, and we already have those. The sideline referee starts with the cards of the 11 players on the field. Subsititutes give theirs as they come in. No card, no entry. Start over for the second half.

The cards are ok but they are 6 x 4. Where in the hell is the linesman going to put them!

cityslicker61 wrote:The cards are ok but they are 6 x 4. Where in the hell is the linesman going to put them!

Forget the 4x6 cards...Classic League changed their mind last night. Now...small cards, one for each player on the team. Must have name of team and jersey # on card. Ref takes starting 11, then subsequently, each sub turns in their card. After 7 subs, no more. Start all over the second half.
The new way makes more sense. Just wish they would not have told us to do it the other way and then change their mind in the eleventh hour.

I think we can still use the cards if we dont have the others...... either way, as long as they have something it will be groovy cool!

dreambig wrote:
Forget the 4x6 cards...Classic League changed their mind last night.

So I'm wondering is the guy from the front row last night asking the questions about cards on this forum?

We played our first game and the substitution rule was fine. No problems. We were playing down a goal and for a while it seemed like both teams were subbing a lot. I felt like the pace was good for the most part.
As far as playing time goes, I don't blame this rule for the lack of playing time. I think the 22 player roster is to blame.

At U-15 and above, injuries are much more common with the boys. They also start having more conflicts that can't be avoided. The 22 roster isn't such a bad thing. Rostering 2 goalies becomes a more viable option. My 94's team doesn't carry 22, but there are benefits. Two boys out to injury for the first game already. No problems with implementation of the rule and no delay in play.
The new rule will also help minimize the flops and feigned injuries to get breathers and water for the team. A player that goes down and requires "attention" will have to leave the field. Coach can decide to play short or use a sub. Again, requiring planning and attention to strategy by the coach.
With 18 spots available and 40 minutes in a half (that's 36 spots in an 80 minute game), if yer not getting playing time on a roster of 18, the new rule isn't the cause and you wouldn't be getting more playing time without the rule. It probably causes more problems for the teams with rosters short of 18--they now get fewer than 7 subs a half.
Every team fact sheet in classic spells it out in black and white--this is a competitive league and there is no guaranteed playing time, the player earns it. As always, if you are riding the pine you may be better served to try to find a team where you can compete for playing time (or go to AYSO or some other rec association wher equal playing time is the rule). Plenty of kids (parents) don't do this because they want to say "I (my kid) play(s) D1!" or whatever. Probably the same ones griping about the rule.

dreambig wrote:

cityslicker61 wrote:The cards are ok but they are 6 x 4. Where in the hell is the linesman going to put them!

Forget the 4x6 cards...Classic League changed their mind last night. Now...small cards, one for each player on the team. Must have name of team and jersey # on card. Ref takes starting 11, then subsequently, each sub turns in their card. After 7 subs, no more. Start all over the second half.
The new way makes more sense. Just wish they would not have told us to do it the other way and then change their mind in the eleventh hour.

Actually, what they came up with was very confusing. It took someone to explain to them how the National League handled the substitution rule for them to finally figure it out. It's not hard, and why people are worried about it is beyond me. Of course, if someone is worried about playing time, maybe they should work a little harder in practice.
Also, as originally proposed, this rule was only supposed to be for the D1 teams (i.e. college bound players). Classic League decided to expand to D2 and D3, and affect players and parents that find this kind of thing difficult to understand.

FlatBack4 wrote:

dreambig wrote:

cityslicker61 wrote:The cards are ok but they are 6 x 4. Where in the hell is the linesman going to put them!

Forget the 4x6 cards...Classic League changed their mind last night. Now...small cards, one for each player on the team. Must have name of team and jersey # on card. Ref takes starting 11, then subsequently, each sub turns in their card. After 7 subs, no more. Start all over the second half.
The new way makes more sense. Just wish they would not have told us to do it the other way and then change their mind in the eleventh hour.

Actually, what they came up with was very confusing. It took someone to explain to them how the National League handled the substitution rule for them to finally figure it out. It's not hard, and why people are worried about it is beyond me. Of course, if someone is worried about playing time, maybe they should work a little harder in practice.
Also, as originally proposed, this rule was only supposed to be for the D1 teams (i.e. college bound players). Classic League decided to expand to D2 and D3, and affect players and parents that find this kind of thing difficult to understand.

I think Classic league probably had it cover all 3 divisions in U-15 and older because it would be even more confusing for referee's if it was only D1, we all think it's hard enough for referees to get it right in normal circumstances much less separate 1 division in an age group. IMO

FlatBack4 wrote:

dreambig wrote:

cityslicker61 wrote:The cards are ok but they are 6 x 4. Where in the hell is the linesman going to put them!

Forget the 4x6 cards...Classic League changed their mind last night. Now...small cards, one for each player on the team. Must have name of team and jersey # on card. Ref takes starting 11, then subsequently, each sub turns in their card. After 7 subs, no more. Start all over the second half.
The new way makes more sense. Just wish they would not have told us to do it the other way and then change their mind in the eleventh hour.

Actually, what they came up with was very confusing. It took someone to explain to them how the National League handled the substitution rule for them to finally figure it out. It's not hard, and why people are worried about it is beyond me. Of course, if someone is worried about playing time, maybe they should work a little harder in practice.
Also, as originally proposed, this rule was only supposed to be for the D1 teams (i.e. college bound players). Classic League decided to expand to D2 and D3, and affect players and parents that find this kind of thing difficult to understand.

Actually, the coaches, not the league, proposed expanding it to the other divisions. The board approved their proposal. There was never a proposal put before the board for just D1. It may have been discussed at the coaces meeting, but that never made it before the board.

So- how is the new rule working from the parents/players point of view?

As a referee I love it, as a parent I don't like it.

After a full season, what are everyone's thoughts on this rule? Is it an improvement? Should the other local leagues adopt it? Should Classic League drop the rule?

south wrote:After a full season, what are everyone's thoughts on this rule? Is it an improvement? Should the other local leagues adopt it? Should Classic League drop the rule?

I like it. I hate the endless subbing some coaches do to kill off games.