99 D1 after 3 Weeks?

99n01 wrote:my bb will be happy in d1-d3.... however, I must admit I would like to stay in d1 or d2..... does anyone know what the point breakout was last season's U11 (98s)... D1 split?

Like the screename, perhaps mine should be 94n99n03nDone!
In my experience, I would rather be in the middle to top of the pack in lieu of being toward the bottom, regardless of the division. Not sure what your situation is, but I personally would rather be near the top of D2, or D3, than being at the bottom of D1. I think it provides an environment of confidence for your bb where he can grow and have something to shoot for (ie. making D2 or D1). Usually in D1 there is one team that is superior, the next four or so are competitive, and the others get beat week after week.

hookem wrote:

go99 wrote:I would rather have a good coach regardless of the team. I suspect you would rather have the good team so you can win. We all have the ego and everybody wants to win, but as i pour over the information coming out about youth soccer development I see a consistant them. Youth developmental soccer is not the same as pro soccer. Pro's the team comes first and youth development the child's development has to come before the team. The ODP information is based intirely on individual skills and tactical awarness is the closest they come at all to any team concept.
Oh BTW that is how FCD put the juniors team into one of it's D1 spots with all new players and coach. What you are speaking of is the minimum for a coach to take his CL spot from a club. The club has not such limitations on the kids or coach. I love the competative envornment, my only point is that it is competative on the individual level not the team one. Focus less on your team and your wins, and focus more on what you learn, what you accomplish, your skills. Eventually no one cares about the color of your jersey, only the content of the player.

Developmet for what though? A very small portion of the kids playing D1 in u11 will play after HS. Some after HS will get a scholarship offer to some tiny school on the East Coast, but most if they play soccer after HS will play rec. soccer with organizations like NTPSA after going to college etc. Most of these kids have the next 7 years to play soccer and that is it. To add, many of the atheletes making up the teams now will not even by playing soccer after the age of 14. They will move to football, basketball etc. which are far more popular because they are school sports, and well, because it is football.
Soccer takes individual skill yes, but it is a team game. If a bb is on a team getting its azz kicked on a weekly basis, they will lose their love for the game to some degree. I believe you get better by playing the best and practicing with the best. The coaching can only go so far.

I see you preach developement, but what exactly are developing for? Kids at age 11 are not concerned about what they will be doing in HS much less what they will be doing after, they are 10-11. They want to compete and win. It is the parents that have grand dreams for their kids which more than likely will not happen. I know too many parents that are setting themselves up for disappointment.

It a defeatist attitude to kill a kids dreams before they start by telling him you will never make it. Don't worry about development, just have fun and win some games you can quit later because you will never be any good anyway. Kids all over this country dream of making it in basketball. They spent many hours tring to master a very difficult game. Many of them will not make it but some will. The percentage are not much better for soccer but the main diference may be that the baskeball player who does come out is amongst the best in the world. The soccer player who makes it is amongst the worst. Hopefully some kids make it and most will not. But the all deserve a chance to learn to play it and see how far they go. Hopefully not because a parent tells them they can't, or because they didn't get the proper development when they were young and find when they are older they just can't keep up. I always find it suprising that we tell our kids they can become anything, but then tell them what they can't do so we can protect them when it's really to protect ourselves.
If I didn't want to see the level of soccer in this country rise I probably wouldn't care. One of tomorrows great players is probably one of the kids whose parents told him not to try.

I would personally rather be in the middle of D1 so the games are hard but you can win enough to continue playing at the top level. I don't think this is the case for my BB's team but the coaching is good and he has been put into a situation where he has to work on the weaker parts of his game. My fear was that under craft he would not have had to work on his weaknesses and could have had plenty of win and success using nothing but his strengths.

Man oh man GO, it's too difficult to follow your train of thought as you seem to be all over the place. I don't read anywhere where hookem is killing anybody's dream, he's just telling it like it is.

Axxman wrote:

Eight-Ball wrote:

go99 wrote:I don't actually think he will keep them up but I know he will do his best to try. Playing with the best players will not make you good. One of the best players from the texans 96 team did not come from a top team. One of the other top texan teams just moved several players up from one of it's lower teams. The Texans have a history of moving players onto it's top teams in later years as players from the top team are moved off.
Soccer is a team sport, but it is also one made up of talented individuals and most importantly it is a highly skilled sport. Craft 99 is not winning because they have a superior team concept. They have more talented individuals than the other teams and the other players are not as far down as some of the other teams.
See how much your team sport and no individual skill carries you when you step into an AL team tryout by yourself to compete for a spot against kids who are just better players. Look at the FCD jrs, U14 squad just came together with individuals and are already beating older squads that have been together as a team for years.
regardless of what any of us "say", if the team is so important then why is everyone putting together super teams and looking for talented players? Why did texans combine top players? What's all the recruiting for? Why not just take the same team that played together since they were kids, because the the team is what mattered right? Tell it to the kid that was at all the Dynamo/texan practices and not playing with craft now.
I'll end here. You also seem to miss something from ball-coise's post "They lose a step in their development, often moving backwards, and then need good well structured training with a more solid team to get back to where they should be. If they are truly gifted, it stunts their development.

I think what I said was playing with good players makes other good players better... I never stated that just playing with good players will make you good - two very different things. The point was the player that is carrying their team can be hurting their own long term development. And yes, soccer is a sport of highly skilled invividuals that play as a team.

I have to agree with eight-ball here, regardless of what Plantit or GO say or better yet, are wishing will happen in the future. If you had your choice and assuming your bb is good enough, would you rather play on a team with equal or better players and against the same, or on a lesser team where your bb is the one carrying the team consistantly? The answer would be an easy one for me, and I have seen it on many of occasion where the kid that had the skills didn't develop like he should have by staying on a crappy team, regardless of the coach. Many of these coaches and clubs have selfish reasons for keeping your kids and promising you the future. And one good example is Figo, don't care how much Plantit loves the guy.

Yea the 97 suffers every day LOL

plantit wrote:

Axxman wrote:

Eight-Ball wrote:

go99 wrote:I don't actually think he will keep them up but I know he will do his best to try. Playing with the best players will not make you good. One of the best players from the texans 96 team did not come from a top team. One of the other top texan teams just moved several players up from one of it's lower teams. The Texans have a history of moving players onto it's top teams in later years as players from the top team are moved off.
Soccer is a team sport, but it is also one made up of talented individuals and most importantly it is a highly skilled sport. Craft 99 is not winning because they have a superior team concept. They have more talented individuals than the other teams and the other players are not as far down as some of the other teams.
See how much your team sport and no individual skill carries you when you step into an AL team tryout by yourself to compete for a spot against kids who are just better players. Look at the FCD jrs, U14 squad just came together with individuals and are already beating older squads that have been together as a team for years.
regardless of what any of us "say", if the team is so important then why is everyone putting together super teams and looking for talented players? Why did texans combine top players? What's all the recruiting for? Why not just take the same team that played together since they were kids, because the the team is what mattered right? Tell it to the kid that was at all the Dynamo/texan practices and not playing with craft now.
I'll end here. You also seem to miss something from ball-coise's post "They lose a step in their development, often moving backwards, and then need good well structured training with a more solid team to get back to where they should be. If they are truly gifted, it stunts their development.

I think what I said was playing with good players makes other good players better... I never stated that just playing with good players will make you good - two very different things. The point was the player that is carrying their team can be hurting their own long term development. And yes, soccer is a sport of highly skilled invividuals that play as a team.

I have to agree with eight-ball here, regardless of what Plantit or GO say or better yet, are wishing will happen in the future. If you had your choice and assuming your bb is good enough, would you rather play on a team with equal or better players and against the same, or on a lesser team where your bb is the one carrying the team consistantly? The answer would be an easy one for me, and I have seen it on many of occasion where the kid that had the skills didn't develop like he should have by staying on a crappy team, regardless of the coach. Many of these coaches and clubs have selfish reasons for keeping your kids and promising you the future. And one good example is Figo, don't care how much Plantit loves the guy.

Yea the 97 suffers every day LOL

I'm so sick of hearing about the 97s it's not even funny. That is all Figo or anyone on his team can ever talk about and is the main draw for recruiting and brain washing people into staying with the team. You are his number 1 salesman and that's alright, nothing wrong with that. But you give Figo a little too much credit for the 97s and you know the history I'm sure as well as anyone. And besides, there is always a cinderalla story every so often, but is that what you want to bank on, please.

If you have never dreamed at 10 or 11 about what you want to be when you grow up then you led an old childhood. Most of their dreams if not all will not come true. So if we are going to tell them the truth then tell them odds are you with not go to college and even if you do you will not finish. You will get a job that does nothing to fullfill you and be paid to little to do it. Yes he is telling it like it is. Most of these kids will not make it. Just imagine if Michael Jordan's mom had told him like it is. Don't worry about making the HS team. Most of you will not make it anyway. Instead she supported him, encouraged him to try, and probably felt at some point that it would never happen. MJ, tiger, any number of other greats spent a lifetime working to be that great player they dreamed of as a kid. Greatness is not an accident it is a product of pursuing a love, hard work, sacrifice, and luck. We should encourage our kids, support their dreams and be there to dust them off when they fail because most of them will.
oh the killing dreams part is the don't worry about developing and just win. You will be done in 7yrs anyway. If they don't devlope now then no matter how much they love this game, they will lack the skill to play it.

Ibystander should step in here and repost the attatchment with the story of the little frogs. Sums it all up clearly and looks like I am the only one who read it

go99 wrote:If you have never dreamed at 10 or 11 about what you want to be when you grow up then you led an old childhood. Most of their dreams if not all will not come true. So if we are going to tell them the truth then tell them odds are you with not go to college and even if you do you will not finish. You will get a job that does nothing to fullfill you and be paid to little to do it. Yes he is telling it like it is. Most of these kids will not make it. Just imagine if Michael Jordan's mom had told him like it is. Don't worry about making the HS team. Most of you will not make it anyway. Instead she supported him, encouraged him to try, and probably felt at some point that it would never happen. MJ, tiger, any number of other greats spent a lifetime working to be that great player they dreamed of as a kid. Greatness is not an accident it is a product of pursuing a love, hard work, sacrifice, and luck. We should encourage our kids, support their dreams and be there to dust them off when they fail because most of them will.
oh the killing dreams part is the don't worry about developing and just win. You will be done in 7yrs anyway. If they don't devlope now then no matter how much they love this game, they will lack the skill to play it.

Ibystander should step in here and repost the attatchment with the story of the little frogs. Sums it all up clearly and looks like I am the only one who read it

The problem is that your assumption here is that hookem or anyone else for that matter, is telling their kids all this nonsense, c'mon now you know better than that. He is simply stating what typically happens, that's all. You are reading too much into it.

Why is it when teams are losing people say "I don't care about winning it's about development." And if a team is winning all the time then it's "oh they just care about winning". I think it's "ass backward". Ever thought because a team is winning that the development and program for development is excellent. Yes they have talented players that are "duh" developing well.

yes but the synicism plays on. Kids don't have to be directly told. They pic up on our doubts and fears. My bb wants to be a pro player and I encourage him to develope and work as hard as he can to get there. I push his education and the soccer actually drive his school because I realize there is a very good chance that he will not make it. Telling parents not to worry about development because the kids will not make it is wrong. It denies a kid his chance to pursue something because of an adults belief in the world. If the kid doesn't want it then that is fine, he should play and enjoy himself and when he no longer wants to do it he can quit. That is fine. If a kid does want to do it and is working hard trying to develope then why is that wrong?
BTW people don't usually tell their kids you will fail or you are not good enough. It comes in much subtler ways than that and with the greatest of intentions. Not sure but if hookem is who I think he is, his BB is a football kid and will probably be an amazing one. I am sure he wouldn't subscribe to the don't worry about learning the finer aspects and skills of the game. You will never make it to UT or the pros anyway. Great kid and an unbelievable athlete.

never said that. I hear josema is great. Hear a mixed bag of things about craft. Crawford has done some great things. Winning is not the problem but niether is losing. According to the US and many of the european youth soccer associations, the "focus" on winning is detrimental to the development.

I suggest you re-read Hookem's(the very large Gunner parent) post. He is exactly right and most on this board need to try as hard as it may be to understand it. If your kid is playing d1 soccer at u11,u12,u13 and if he has talent and some athletic ability he will develop over time.IT WILL HAPPEN. There is no need to worry about that and if he doesn't he will be smart enough and probably come to you and want to give something else a try. As of right now 10/01/09 he is only concerned and his team winning. Let that be his goal for now and the rest will take care of itself.

being on a d1 team isn't enough and it's not magic. It doesn't just happen. It's funny the difference in the thought process between many and several of the top players in the age group. I know several of the top players from the texans who it didn't just happen too. Everyone loves the German. They talk about how great he is and talented. Nobody talks about all of the hard work and focusing on his skills that he has done. Withou a doubt the kid is talented but do not discount the fact that he also works harder than most at this game.
And he is a big boy isn't he. His son will probably be bigger than him. OU should offer him a scholorship not because that kid is a beast.

You know nothing about the German/not German and his training. Heck, you even posted on the 98 board that you were suprised he was doing so well - actually I think you said "shocked".
Go back to your banter with Axx, but leave this kid out of it. You don't know him.

ontherightside wrote:You know nothing about the German/not German and his training. Heck, you even posted on the 98 board that you were suprised he was doing so well - actually I think you said "shocked".
Go back to your banter with Axx, but leave this kid out of it. You don't know him.

go99 hasn't figured out that you don't talk about individual players on here - since he loves to talk about his own so much, he just figures everyone else also wants the attention.

I was surprised that he was dominating the 98 group as I heard. Don't know him personally but met his dad and hes was very particular about his development. But hey, maybe you are right and he doesn't work hard at all. No extra training at all, he just shows up and it happens. Still leave out several of the texans top players who I do know work very hard on their development.
So are you saying that I am wrong about him or are you just saying that is am an arrogant a**hole because I already know that.

go99 wrote:I would personally rather be in the middle of D1 so the games are hard but you can win enough to continue playing at the top level. I don't think this is the case for my BB's team but the coaching is good and he has been put into a situation where he has to work on the weaker parts of his game. My fear was that under craft he would not have had to work on his weaknesses and could have had plenty of win and success using nothing but his strengths.

Go, you are so confusing, you always talk about how your bb loves to play against the best. More time is spent in practices than in games. Why wouldn't you put your bb on a top team where he can practice several times a week against the best - don't you think that will help him work on his weaknesses. Oh I forgot -- because the top teams don't focus on development -- only winning. So based on what your saying is your bb could have played on another team but you chose the one your on. Me thinks your ego is too big and getting in the way of your bb's development.

go99 wrote:yes but the synicism plays on. Kids don't have to be directly told. They pic up on our doubts and fears. My bb wants to be a pro player and I encourage him to develope and work as hard as he can to get there. I push his education and the soccer actually drive his school because I realize there is a very good chance that he will not make it. Telling parents not to worry about development because the kids will not make it is wrong. It denies a kid his chance to pursue something because of an adults belief in the world. If the kid doesn't want it then that is fine, he should play and enjoy himself and when he no longer wants to do it he can quit. That is fine. If a kid does want to do it and is working hard trying to develope then why is that wrong?
BTW people don't usually tell their kids you will fail or you are not good enough. It comes in much subtler ways than that and with the greatest of intentions. Not sure but if hookem is who I think he is, his BB is a football kid and will probably be an amazing one. I am sure he wouldn't subscribe to the don't worry about learning the finer aspects and skills of the game. You will never make it to UT or the pros anyway. Great kid and an unbelievable athlete.

I think to some degree you misunderstood me. I was trying to imply that the kids want to win now, not in some distant future when his skills are developed enough to compete on a world stage. I tell my kid to give 100% at all times. I tell him to practice how he plays. I tell him that practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. You know my bb.Yes developement is important, but a good coach will win the games while developing the players. I do not think you have to sacrafice skill development to win. The more competitive the environment the better it is for the bb.
I was also trying to imply that many of the kids playing D1-3 in U11 will not be around to play the game when the kids have reached their peak developement. These kids want to win now. I also was trying to say that kids at the age of 10-11 live for now. They have really no idea what their future will hold for them, nor do most of them think past the end of the evening. I would love for my child to get a scholarship to play football or soccer, but I would be just as happy for him if he gtes an education scholarship, makes good grades and has a career doing whatever it is that he enjoys (law, music, IT (ok maybe not IT lol), etc). Yes, when I was young I dreamed of playing football for UT. It didnt happen because of my lack of want, it was my lack of talent. I have no issue with kids dreaming and I would never crush my kids dreams with my perceived reality, but it is reality.
All that rambling aside, i want my bb to have fun playing the game against the best he can compete against. Not so that some day he can play in the pro's, but for the pure love of the game and the competition. Call me crazy, but there it is. I apologize for going all over the place...ready to get the hell out of work..argg.

Hookem ,you think like the vast majority of parents out there. Go99 and those like him wil never see it that way. Discussing this with him and those like him is like a nails on a chalkboard version of "Who's on First" by Abbott and Costello. I am sure he doesn't know what that is but you ost of the others do.
I tell my kid to go play hard, have fun and try to get a W. He tells his kid to go play hard, have fun and develop. Now prepare for the next 9 posts of different versions of Who's on First."
I'm ready to get back to the games at hand.

slidetackle wrote:

go99 wrote:I would personally rather be in the middle of D1 so the games are hard but you can win enough to continue playing at the top level. I don't think this is the case for my BB's team but the coaching is good and he has been put into a situation where he has to work on the weaker parts of his game. My fear was that under craft he would not have had to work on his weaknesses and could have had plenty of win and success using nothing but his strengths.

Go, you are so confusing, you always talk about how your bb loves to play against the best. More time is spent in practices than in games. Why wouldn't you put your bb on a top team where he can practice several times a week against the best - don't you think that will help him work on his weaknesses. Oh I forgot -- because the top teams don't focus on development -- only winning. So based on what your saying is your bb could have played on another team but you chose the one your on. Me thinks your ego is too big and getting in the way of your bb's development.

Actually he is were he is for no other reason than the coach. period. Looking at my choices of coaches that I was able to meet and practices I could make blue is where we stayed.
Hookem, I think your BB will be a success at whatever he decides to do. He is a go-getter. I have never seen anyone give more, work harder, or try harder. More than any other kid, I count your BB for helping make my BB the way he is.
I kind of know abbott and costello (looked it up on the internet), and the chalkboard is because you are too easy.

Eight-Ball wrote:

ontherightside wrote:You know nothing about the German/not German and his training. Heck, you even posted on the 98 board that you were suprised he was doing so well - actually I think you said "shocked".
Go back to your banter with Axx, but leave this kid out of it. You don't know him.

go99 hasn't figured out that you don't talk about individual players on here - since he loves to talk about his own so much, he just figures everyone else also wants the attention.

I second that.

Axxman wrote:

plantit wrote:

Axxman wrote:

Eight-Ball wrote:

go99 wrote:I don't actually think he will keep them up but I know he will do his best to try. Playing with the best players will not make you good. One of the best players from the texans 96 team did not come from a top team. One of the other top texan teams just moved several players up from one of it's lower teams. The Texans have a history of moving players onto it's top teams in later years as players from the top team are moved off.
Soccer is a team sport, but it is also one made up of talented individuals and most importantly it is a highly skilled sport. Craft 99 is not winning because they have a superior team concept. They have more talented individuals than the other teams and the other players are not as far down as some of the other teams.
See how much your team sport and no individual skill carries you when you step into an AL team tryout by yourself to compete for a spot against kids who are just better players. Look at the FCD jrs, U14 squad just came together with individuals and are already beating older squads that have been together as a team for years.
regardless of what any of us "say", if the team is so important then why is everyone putting together super teams and looking for talented players? Why did texans combine top players? What's all the recruiting for? Why not just take the same team that played together since they were kids, because the the team is what mattered right? Tell it to the kid that was at all the Dynamo/texan practices and not playing with craft now.
I'll end here. You also seem to miss something from ball-coise's post "They lose a step in their development, often moving backwards, and then need good well structured training with a more solid team to get back to where they should be. If they are truly gifted, it stunts their development.

I think what I said was playing with good players makes other good players better... I never stated that just playing with good players will make you good - two very different things. The point was the player that is carrying their team can be hurting their own long term development. And yes, soccer is a sport of highly skilled invividuals that play as a team.

I have to agree with eight-ball here, regardless of what Plantit or GO say or better yet, are wishing will happen in the future. If you had your choice and assuming your bb is good enough, would you rather play on a team with equal or better players and against the same, or on a lesser team where your bb is the one carrying the team consistantly? The answer would be an easy one for me, and I have seen it on many of occasion where the kid that had the skills didn't develop like he should have by staying on a crappy team, regardless of the coach. Many of these coaches and clubs have selfish reasons for keeping your kids and promising you the future. And one good example is Figo, don't care how much Plantit loves the guy.

Yea the 97 suffers every day LOL

I'm so sick of hearing about the 97s it's not even funny. That is all Figo or anyone on his team can ever talk about and is the main draw for recruiting and brain washing people into staying with the team. You are his number 1 salesman and that's alright, nothing wrong with that. But you give Figo a little too much credit for the 97s and you know the history I'm sure as well as anyone. And besides, there is always a cinderalla story every so often, but is that what you want to bank on, please.

too bad his magic isn't working on the 99s

go99 wrote:I would personally rather be in the middle of D1 so the games are hard but you can win enough to continue playing at the top level. I don't think this is the case for my BB's team but the coaching is good and he has been put into a situation where he has to work on the weaker parts of his game. My fear was that under craft he would not have had to work on his weaknesses and could have had plenty of win and success using nothing but his strengths.

gopher, you really expect us to believe you had all these coaches chasing you and you selected fcd blue so you could be in the middle of the pack and your bb could work on his weaknesses. ok.

regardless of what you think he had opportunities to go to other teams. I like the coach so I chose to stay knowing that they would struggle. Had the club chose to combine the teams they would have had one of the strongest team but for various reasons they chose not to this season. I did not chose them because of the struggle and somehow I like to believe that others would chose their coach even if he was not winning every game.

so my first choice would have been diego on a combined team because my bb responds well to diego. Didn't happen though

Bobby seems like a nice enough guy, and is probably a good coach - I'll be honest and say I don't know - but I have to wonder about the analysis to pick a coach knowing that he had another primary committment during the entire MLS season that would require travel on Saturdays.
I think it turned out ok - your assistant is probably better than Rhine.